January 16, 2007
Loving the Hell Out of People
Shane Claiborne on ministering to those trapped in hell on earth.
Last year Brian McLaren shared his views about hell in a series of three posts on Out or Ur. This year we welcome a new voice on the subject. Shane Claiborne is a founding member of The Simple Way, a new monastic community in Philadelphia, and the author of The Irresistible Revolution: Living as an Ordinary Radical. In part one of his post, Shane discusses his childhood memories of preachers "scaring the hell out of him," and reflects on a more Christlike alternative.
I figure anytime you are about to talk about hell it's good to start with a joke, so here we go?.It was a busy day in heaven as folks waited in line at the pearly gates. Peter stood as gatekeeper checking each newcomer's name in the Lamb's Book of Life. But there was some confusion, as the numbers were not adding up. Heaven was a little overcrowded, and a bunch of folks were unaccounted for. So some of the angels were sent on a mission to investigate things. And it was not long before two of them returned, "We found the problem," they said. "Jesus is out back, lifting people up over the gate."
I remember as a child hearing all the hellfire and damnation sermons. We had a theater group perform a play called, "Heaven's Gates and Hell's Flames" where actors presented scenes of folks being ripped away from loved ones only to be sent to the fiery pits of hell where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, and we all went forward to repent of all the evil things we had done over our first decade of life, in paralyzing fear of being "left behind"? the preacher literally scared the "hell" out of us.
But have you ever noticed that Jesus didn't spend much time on hell.
In fact there are really only a couple of times he speaks of weeping and gnashing of teeth, of hell and God's judgment. And both of them have to do with the walls we create between ourselves and our suffering neighbors. One is Matthew 25 where the sheep and the goats are separated, and the goats who did not care for the poor, hungry, homeless, and imprisoned are sent off to endure an agony akin to that experienced by the ones that they neglected on this earth. And then there is the story of the rich man and Lazarus, a parable Jesus tells about a rich man who neglected the poor beggar outside his gate.
In the parable we hear of a wealthy man who builds a gate between himself and the poor man, and that chasm becomes an unbridgeable gap not only with Lazarus but with God. He is no doubt a religious man (he calls out "Father" Abraham and knows the prophets), and undoubtedly he had made a name for himself on earth, but is now a nameless rich man begging the beggar for a drop of water. And Lazarus who lived a nameless life in the shadows of misery is seated next to God, and given a name. Lazarus is the only person named in Jesus' parables, and his name means "the one God rescues." God is in the business of rescuing people from the hells they experience on earth. And God is asking us to love people out of those hells.
Nowadays many of us spend a lot of time pondering and theologizing about heaven on earth and God's Kingdom coming here (and rightly so!), but it seems we would also do well to do a little work with the reality of hell. Hell is not just something that comes after death, but something many are living in this very moment? 1.2 billion people that are groaning for a drop of water each day, over 30,000 kids starving to death each day, 38 million folks dying of AIDS. It seems ludicrous to think of preaching to them about hell. I see Jesus spending far more energy loving the "hell" out of people, and lifting people out of the hells in which they are trapped, than trying to scare them into heaven. And one of the most beautiful things we get to see in community here in Kensington, is people who have been loved out of the hells that they find themselves in - domestic violence, addiction, sex trafficking, loneliness.
This article was reposted with the permission of PRISM - America's Alternative Evangelical Voice. Visit their website to learn more.
Posted by UrL Scaramanga on January 16, 2007
Comments
well, there's alot that could be said about this post, but one point is obvious: you can't have your exegesis two ways. You can't talk about Jesus describing people who refuse to be loving toward others as going to a place of torment after they die and then switch your metaphor to rescuing people out of pitiful situations. Maybe it was Jesus who said "unless you are converted you will all likewise perish." 2000 years of Christianity have agreed with the teachings of Christ and the apostles that spiritual rebirth by faith in Christ is essential. As you love people in word and deed the fact that without Christ there is a place of eternal torment for all humans because of their rebellion against God has to come into play at some point.
Posted by: John Hollandsworth at January 16, 2007
I would never diminish or dismiss the theological reality of the existence of hell. Jesus spoke of it, therefore it must be real.
But Shane reminds us of something so very important. I believe that, for way too long, Christianity (especially our deep south, Bible-belt version of it) has amounted to little more that getting your hands on some "stay out of hell insurance" for eternal life. That, to me, just sounds like a cheap, self-centered, negative version of the Gospel.
But eternal life in Jesus Christ is so much more that just "avoiding hell." He wants our eternal life to begin here and now ... in this life. Surely we can have a small "taste" of heaven in the love, relationships, and atmosphere of care that should exist within our communities of faith ... our churches.
http://geoffbaggett.wordpress.com
Posted by: Geoff Baggett at January 16, 2007
Interesting post...
But I am curious as to Shane's statement that Jesus didn't spend much time on the topic of hell. Is he reading the same Bible? Now I am not a Bible "thumper" but even a cursory read will show that Jesus spent a lot of time on the topic of hell. Any Bible scholar, particularly of the New Testament breed, worth his weight in salt, will tell you that Jesus spent a lot of time on the topic of hell. It's all over the Gospels! But more importantly it's almost always connected with the idea of the Kingdom of God (both as a present thing (for the regenerate man) and as a future thing (his second coming)). The Kingdom of God and Hell are inseperable in the Gospels.
I am all in favor of helping the poor and reaching out to those in their own "hell" here. But let's not water down the text! Lets maintain the integrity of the message of Jesus Christ. In fact, a full understanding of the Kingdom of God and how it relates to hell has been one the most powerful driving forces for Christian charity and social work, as a study of particuraly the 1800's will show.
Blessings,
Posted by: Truth Seeker at January 16, 2007
my problem with preaching about "hell" has little to do with hell. yeah, i think we should mention the horrible reality of hell and do our part to "snatch others from the fire" (jude 23).
here's my problem, we don't make heaven seem so great. our churches are gloomy, full of gossip, religious, critical, and often prejudice of the lost (like muslims, for example). we can say all we want about how bad hell will be but if we don't show the unchurched an alive, joyful, healthy body of Christ - why in the world would they prefer heaven?
i mean if the "saved" are miserable most people would prefer to simply remain happy in sin.
just thinking outloud... peace.
Posted by: Chilly... at January 16, 2007
i can't believe you guys did an article on hell and didn't invite me...you *know* this is my favorite subject.
like john-the-baptist, mike-the-ex-baptist has taken it upon himself to call onto the carpet the pastors of churches sw of atlanta and make them pick one of two "visions" for 2007:
1:
a burning hell exists where people who have not professed faith in Jesus Christ in this lifetime will be tortured, tormented, and roasted for all eternity. praise God.
2:
hell on earth exists in many, many places, and we can rescue those trapped in it.
number one means everything in this life is meaningless except for making sure everyone who even remotely crosses our path knows the bad news (hell) and the good news (heaven). as Christians, we should be staffing every hospital, every nursing home, every street in Baghdad, frantically trying to get the message out that each person must pick between door #1 (heaven), door #2 (hell), and door #3 (uh...there is no door #3).
number two means that by being salt and light - by loving God and our neighbor - by living and working to produce the fruits of the spirit - the Kingdom of God comes and fills the earth.
as it is in heaven.
not hell.
Posted by: mike rucker at January 16, 2007
this is my observation. . .
if we're concerned and make sure that we're trying in every way to love people away from the darkness by exhibiting a Calvary-like love, then the discussion of the a hell after we die is secondary.
if we're concerned with saving people from a hell after death, then we tend to be less concerned with saving them from a hell on earth.
Posted by: marc at January 16, 2007
the fires in heaven maybe hotter than the flames of hell.
Posted by: a sinner at January 16, 2007
It is of interest to me that St. Peter is always placed at the front of the pearly gates checking the lamb's book of life to see who goes in or who doesn't even though Jesus said that He is the door.
No surprise since Peter is related as the head of the church and of course the so-called church has been saying who goes in and who doesn't for many years now.
Hard for me to imagine hell being much worse than seeing the constant struggle of everyday life some experience and then others taking advantage of their situations. Daily news is portrayed as a Ho-hum occurence ( you heard it here first) to be wiped out from our memory by the following football game.
Man turns his back to fellow man because he turned his back to God, same difference, same outcome, death.
Posted by: Richard at January 17, 2007
Marc, you said,
"if we're concerned with saving people from a hell after death, then we tend to be less concerned with saving them from a hell on earth."
The people who do the MOST on this earth to help those out of a 'hell on earth' are, and always have been, born-again-from-hell Christians. You made a catchy phrase but there's not a word of truth in it.
Out of Ur, I challenge you to invite a writer to present a column on the "lack" of preaching on a literal hell in today's evangelical churches and the impact it has had. You've given a lot of voice to the 'hell as metaphor' crowd. Now it's time to balance the scale.
Posted by: Melody at January 17, 2007
The bible never really speaks of a hell on earth as a concept, rather is speaks of the impact of sin. The hell on earth concept comes from a 20th century thought process. The bible does describe eternity without Christ as hell and that description is bad, even if it is metaphorical it is still bad.
My problem with the posters thinking is that you do not have to deconstruct the doctrine of hell to have a heart of compassion. You do not have to be motivated by the belief that people entering eternity without Christ are in bad shape to seek to bring a message of hope. His thinking, while missional (there is that word) in appearance comes across as reactionary to a doctrine he does not like or possibly understand.
Personally I believe in a literal hell and a literal heaven, the likes of which the bible does not fully describe. The descriptions I do have make me think that heaven is better. For many people life without Christ here on earth is “hell” but at its worst life here is not without the presence of God, available to all because of the love of God and the redeeming work of the Spirit in the world. The bible says that hell is to be cut off from the presence of God totally, that could realistically be something I cannot wrap my mind around apart from a description of eternal torment.
To make the doctrine about the character of God is to make god in our image. We end op saying, “If I were God I’d never do that so there is no way God would do that.” After all God in many people’s mind is just a bigger and better one of us. He is actually not merely better but different altogether. The doctrine of hell is ultimately about the sinfulness of sin and its vileness to a holy and perfect God. The doctrine of hell is not about a bully meting out punishment to people who suffered a hell on earth and now he will really get them.
Posted by: leoskeo at January 17, 2007
of course, good works alone won't keep you out of hell...Matt 7:21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'(NIV)
Posted by: john umland at January 17, 2007
maybe it's just me, but i don't think anyone here really puts two and two together in the teaching of hell.
hell as "separation from God" and hell as "eternal burning pain" are two very, very different things. we can't just blithely interchange them in our discussions.
if an ETERNITY of conscious, burning existence awaits ANYONE, then how does anything in this life matter other than our efforts to try and get people out of it? how could you sit in heaven, know someone is literally burning for all eternity, and not weep and gnash your own teeth for the time you spent in your pointless job, at your kids' football games - heck, even time wasted at church - when you could have been knocking on doors and at least making sure everyone knew what awaited them at death?
see romans 10:14 - they can't hear if we don't tell.
do we really, really think God would have left the possibility of someone burning for all eternity in OUR hands?
don't dance around this. state the facts. if you believe that someone in a hospital in your city could die today, then why are you sitting surfing the internet? how do you know whether or not that person has heard about heaven and hell? if *you* haven't told them, how could they know?
this is absolute insanity. and we need to stop teaching it in our churches.
and all the comments about "making God in our image" are nothing but theological games. God MUST be INFINITELY more mericiful and just than any of us, and if we recoil in horror at the jews burning at auschwitz, then we should similarly recoil in horror at any teaching that says God does the same.
quit playing games, people. use the brains God gave you. stop sticking this cross upon kids who grow up thinking that the deliverance from an eternal hellfire for all the people in their lives is their responsibility. this should be considered child abuse.
mike the (ex-)baptist
Posted by: mike rucker at January 17, 2007
Like the rich man, people choose to not believe and thus go to hell. They are not "sent" to hell. God's desire is that everyone be united to him. After all, he "so loved the world (that is, loved the world with such intensity)that he sent his Son, who emptied himself (that is, gave everything he had) to save people like me. That's how bad my sin was -- it took everything the Creator of the universe had to save me.
The more we understand how much God loves us, the more we'll be willing and able to love others and do everything we can to relieve suffering here and in the hereafter.
I think if we focus on God's love, this whole debate becomes pointless.
Like Paul said, the love of Christ drives us.
Posted by: Dan at January 17, 2007
"But have you ever noticed that Jesus didn’t spend much time on hell."
Erm, I think Jesus spends more time talking about hell than anyone in the Bible. Sorry, no dice.
Posted by: Adam Omelianchuk at January 17, 2007
AMEN MELODY!
It seems that we have forgotten what hell in the Bible is. Hell in the Bible is the place were people go after they die who do not have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Many people in Jesus's time were living in poverty and abuse however Jesus did not describe this life as hell, he described it as life.
Many of our African and Middle Eastern brothers and sisters live in what we would call hell on earth but in reality the lack of goods and the persecution ALLOWS them to have a deeper relationship with God,(James 2:4) while ours in this "heaven" of the U.S. gets weaker and weaker.
We as Christians need to help the poor BY ALL MEANS, however if we do share the gospel with them we have done them the greatest misservice of all. We have given them a drop of water when we could have given them the whole ocean.
Posted by: GW at January 17, 2007
Just wanted to mention that for those of you that think Shane's idea is heretical or not biblical listen to what New Testament Scholar N.T Wright said right here at:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/january/22.38.html
At the end of this interview he said...
"For generations the church has been polarized between those who see the main task being the saving of souls for heaven and the nurturing of those souls through the valley of this dark world, on the one hand, and on the other hand those who see the task of improving the lot of human beings and the world, rescuing the poor from their misery.
"The longer that I've gone on as a New Testament scholar and wrestled with what the early Christians were actually talking about, the more it's been borne in on me that that distinction is one that we modern Westerners bring to the text rather than finding in the text. Because the great emphasis in the New Testament is that the gospel is not how to escape the world; the gospel is that the crucified and risen Jesus is the Lord of the world. And that his death and Resurrection transform the world, and that transformation can happen to you. You, in turn, can be part of the transforming work. That draws together what we traditionally called evangelism, bringing people to the point where they come to know God in Christ for themselves, with working for God's kingdom on earth as it is in heaven. That has always been at the heart of the Lord's Prayer, and how we've managed for years to say the Lord's Prayer without realizing that Jesus really meant it is very curious. Our Western culture since the 18th century has made a virtue of separating out religion from real life, or faith from politics.When I lecture about this, people will pop up and say, "Surely Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world." And the answer is no, what Jesus said in John 18 is, "My kingdom is not from this world." That's ek tou kosmoutoutou. It's quite clear in the text that Jesus' kingdom doesn't start with this world. It isn't a worldly kingdom, but it is for this world. It's from somewhere else, but it's for this world.
"The key to mission is always worship. You can only be reflecting the love of God into the world if you are worshiping the true God who creates the world out of overflowing self-giving love. The more you look at that God and celebrate that love, the more you have to be reflecting that overflowing self-giving love into the world."
Shane's idea obviously needs to have the balance of acknowledging hell's existence and warning people about it, but maybe his emphasis on serving and helping people out of their personal "hells" isn't so crazy of an idea.
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by: Scott Aughtmon at January 18, 2007
GW, I do believe that Jesus said " I am the way, the truth and the life."
Posted by: Richard at January 18, 2007
Even God's wrath is an expression of His love, no matter how He decides to express it...here in this life or in eternity.
Remember when John says, "Whoever believes in the son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son wil not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
One time my wife, at McDonalds, saw a 10 year old girl bullying our 3 year old son in the play area. The girl's mom was in there "handling it", so my wife didn't worry, until she saw our son reacting strangely. You should've seen my wife when she went in there and realized the mom was also bullying our son! I'm telling you, my wife is GOOD, and she is LOVE, but if you mess with her son unjustly...you can expect to experience her wrath (and mine was barely containable when she told me the story)! I can tell you that I do pity this woman. I desire her to have a better life than the one she is leading. Whatever has happened to her that has made her into the angry and bitter thing my wife saw that day is something I want healed, and I would honored to play a role it's coming about. But it is out of our love for our son that our wrath for this woman flowed. It did not mean we didn't love her as well.
I think the Father's love for the son is so unbelievably pure and strong, that if, after what Jesus submitted to for humanity, out of his great love and submission to His Father, that if a human dare not submit to such love...to Jesus...you can expect to experience His wrath. His goodness and his love for His Son demands that he express it...however that comes, here or in eternity, I would pretty much call it "Hell".
On the flip side, there is this dude that like to pull practical jokes on me. He's a great guy, thinks he's funny, but is quite irritating. But you know what? He loves my son. My boy speaks of that guy with so much fondness. It's because that guy plays with my son, brings cool gifts to him...basically, loves him. That guy can get away with a whole bunch of stuff that he does "against" me, because of my great love for my son.
It looks to me like God (in his love) sent Jesus to save us from God (in his wrath...which is also an expression of His love).
If we observe that whole scene, and the Spirit gets it's reality into our spirit, won't we spend the rest of our lives in loving gratitude to God living out the Kingdom's values here on earth with our fellow man? Fairly effortlessly? Enjoying it all the way? Regardless of our "theology" on Hell?
Posted by: Brian Mashburn at January 18, 2007
Life on earth can be bad, evil, somewhat "hellish"--but it can never be hell. As best human vocabulary can describe it and as bad as human thought can make it--it must be infinitely worse, for the One Man who did experience it on earth cried, "My God, My God--why have your forsaken Me?" By the way, if there is no hell, why did He go through that? What's the point? And as to God being some cruel heavenly SS officer delighting in burning people--what about a Father who would send His Son to go through that agony--and not for good people, but scum like I can be at times (too often)? I think you can believe Scripture and act on it (including helping people out or eternal and earthly misery) or just be an atheist denying the reality of it all, but this middle of the road, panty-waist stuff is nauseating.
Posted by: dennis at January 18, 2007
I need to make a change to my comment, I ment to say " if we do NOT share the gospel we are doing them a misservice."
Richard I agree with you, I never said He didn't.
Posted by: GW at January 18, 2007
OK, so I do see the point John Hollandsworth made about switching from Hell as an eternal punishment to Hell-on-Earth, but I also think I get your point. And it's interesting that Jesus really only talked about Hell a couple times.
Great article. This gets some link love at infinivert.com
Posted by: Josh at January 18, 2007
People dont like hearing about hell nowadays, they rather hear about it in a much milder way but nevertheless it is real. We should tell the truth in love....like the Bible said, if we dont warn the man of his sins and he dies in his sin, we would be held accountable for it. Yes, soimetimes the truth hurts, doesnt it?
Posted by: chuesie at January 18, 2007
Someone said, "We should tell them truth in love..." Maybe the problem isn't that hell exists, but that very few people in the church are telling anyone anything IN LOVE. One need look no further than the tone of many commentors for an example.
Posted by: eric wright at January 22, 2007
interesting to me how everyone sits around with thier expertise in the bible and history and talks all this talk. People sure do seem to have the market cornered on God and have had a direct conversation with him. If you just look at this conversation everyone is interpreting the bible and history from their own lens and experiences in life. Which at some level has to be done but fact of the matter is, are you willing to admit that you might be wrong.
I think we are going to be surprised at some of the faces we see in heaven and some of the face we see in hell and at what heaven and hell really is.
Posted by: jimz at January 24, 2007
The only definition of eternal life that Jesus gives that I am aware of is in John 17:3. "Eternal life is knowing God and the one he has sent." That sure implies to me that at least part of eternal life is entered into right now.
But I do think there is another part we encounter later, but it's hard to know the exact details. The images of fire and brimstone we associate with HELL may well have been around when Jesus was alive, and he just used them to get his point across about the serious need to rethink one's life in light of the present availability of the Kingdom of God, which I think was what Jesus spent most of his time talking about and about which his life was a living illustration.
To me, HELL is separation from God, and from the life we were created to live now and forever. Jesus came that we might be restored to God and set free to live life to the full. Whether there is a literal destination for those who choose to live their life separated from God and never come to faith in Christ, I'm not sure. It does seem clear that Jesus takes the subject seriously and suggests we ought to make knowing God our top priority in this life and that we risk serious consequences if we don't.
If I've lived my whole life far away from God and then I suddenly die and go to the immediate presence of God--heaven--I might find that almost unbearable. That is what I think Dallas Willard gets at when he says, "the fires of heaven may be hotter than the fires of hell." Spending eternity somewhere where what is routinely done is completely foreign to me because I never practiced these activities before I arrived could be worse than being subjected to literal fire and brimstone.
Posted by: Alan Ward at January 24, 2007
One thing that I've come to realize throughout my journey is that salvation and the abundant life that Christ spoke about has less to do with where we spend eternity and more to do with how we interact with God and our fellow human beings while we are here on earth.
Don't get me wrong eternity with our Savior after our life here certainly is a component of salvation but it's more of a fringe benefit rather than the end all.
An earlier post by Truth Seeker claims that Jesus spent a lot of time on the topic of hell. I'd like to challange him to post for us all of these instances, because certainly it's easier to just make a claim like that but a little bit more difficult to back it up.
So many evangelicals today think it is wimpy or watering down the Gospel to speak of love so much. However, in John 13:34 Jesus said, "Let me give you a new command: Love one another. In the same way I loved you, you love one another. This is how everyone will recognize that you are my disciples—when they see the love you have for each other." Christ's entire ministry centered around love.
A prof. of mine in college shared a story with us about a time when he was trying to witness to a kid he had been coaching. While driving the kid home one day my prof. once again launched into witnessing mode, it was then that the kid looked at him and said, "You care more about my soul than you do about me".
Let us love because He first loved us and when we are asked to give an account of that love, then we get to point to Jesus.
-M.C.T.
For better or worse, it's all a part of the journey.
Come join in the discussion.
www.mycrazytimes.com
Posted by: My Crazy Times at January 27, 2007
My bet is, outside Baptist circles ( and this is a compliment to my SBC brothers) we preach about hell A LOT LESS than Jesus did. Most mainlines can't reconcile God's Justice with their seeker sensitive God who is so desperate for us, He wouldn't want to hurt our feelings.
Posted by: Corey at January 30, 2007
I agree with Shane, except I must add that some people need the Hell scared out of them and others need the Hell loved out of them. All things work for the good pleasure of his will.
Posted by: Scott at February 5, 2007