Television is even worse! Guys like Osteen have millions of Americans under the asinine notion that the Gospel and the way of Jesus are about the individual pursuit of happiness.

Then there are those popular pastors who sell 30 million books in which one in particular has the opening line "it's not about you" and then the book proceeds to be all about me!!!

Of course it is about us and me because we're not called to be radio-orthodox, we're called to put the way of Jesus on display--visibly.

The greatest assault on the church is NOT the emerging church--for the church is always emerging. The greatest assault is the propogation that salvation has to do with escaping this world. That the way of Jesus has something to do with sentimental feelings in your heart. The Scriptures point us not to a God in our heart, but a God become flesh. The God who is making all things new.

First of all, a 'radio-heretic' ought to state who he is. This is a pretty whiny anonymous post. I, too, have some issues with Erwin McManus but who would dare to question 'pastor's-convention-orthodoxy' of which McManus is a significant part? A guy who can "bring them in" to the church building, regardless of what he does or does not preach is considered to be a great Christian leader. Or who dares to question the writer of the latest best-seller book? Whenever anyone does question the new 'generous orthodoxy' one is labeled unloving and uncaring and totally out of touch with the culture. Dear anonymous pastor, you need to take Rick Warren's advice and get rid of those old folks who dare to stand in the way of your vision.

Let me suggest a middle way ...

Listen to what you like and use the off button when parts come on you don't agree with. We probably do that with most other things we listen to, why not Christian radio? You can't control what programming is aired, but you can control if you listen.

For example, I like listening to contemporary Christian music so I have my radio tuned to a Christian station often (granted, sometimes the music is a little too much about me and my wonderful personal God but that's another issue) but each morning when they have a cute kid get on and say the pledge of allegience I have to turn the radio off for a few minutes. Yes, I am American and I'm proud of that but my ultimate allegience is to the Kingdom of God and I don't believe it is appropriate to say the pledge to the American flag on Christian radio no matter how adorable the child sounds. I know they mean well, but it rubs me the wrong way and I think it sends the wrong message to the children.

Another place I usually turn the radio to another station is when they have kids programming. It just comes across as insipid to me -- and the irony is they try so hard to make it lively and exciting. Granted, I know I am not the target audience. It may be helpful to some children, but I kind of doubt it. I'm afraid these are precisely the kinds of presentations that turn smart kids away from church. Reminds me of the satirical things you'd see Rod and Todd Flanders (children of the local evangelical Christian) watch on the Simpsons.

Of course, all of this is my personal opinion.

Melody, I too have some issues with so called "emerging" types, but Erwin McManus certainly is not one of them. Like the poster says...read his stuff. He certainly challenged me to a new level of commitment to Christ (I'm 51 and pretty much "old school" about alot of stuff). I think there is some truth to the fact that any preacher with a electronic media outlet seems to stand a little taller in the saddle than I stand in the pulpit. Maybe emergents need to forget about podcasts and get on AM radio. We're all doing "broad brush" painting here but how wonderful that you were able to get a shot in on McManus AND Rick Warren in the same post.

Melody - do you think people should mindlessly listen to media and shape their judgments of other people by the media they consume?

good post, you could insert any name or movement in there and the point would remain a very good one. I think I could safely say that McLaren wouldn't want people mindlessly consuming HIS material and making judgments about others by it either.

Nah... blogosphere orthodoxy is where it's at... you know, if a "Discernment" site makes the charge, it MUST be true, right? Particularly if they use funny photoshopped images to make their charges.

You should hear what Colson said about Brian McLaren on the radio!

Going back to the initial writing, I thought that it wasn't so much that the church member was emphasizing that because he heard it on the radio it had to be right, but that CHUCK COLSON said it. I may be putting thoughts in his head, but that is what occurred to me. I thought it was just unstated. Colson has cred in some circles.

Excellent post. I think it is important that Christian radio attempt to be intentional about dialogue and discussion. It is, of course, their right to present the truth as they understand it, but there is a responsibility that often gets overlooked.

Further, listeners of radio orthodoxy must also learn to be discerning, choosing to broaden their perspective to be sure they are not accepting everything without consideration.

It is a real challenge. Glad you are engaging it.

Peace,
Jamie

I know this is probably a long shot, but it is still a question worth asking (I think). Isn't the word of a God still a trump card for even the most bonafide radio-gospel followers? And if so, wouldn't it be possible to have them take a serious look at I John 4:1?

Here John makes a serious appeal to Christians to "test the spirits". This is a call to search, inspect, consider, pray about, research, hold up in light the word of God, and to "Test" whatever doctrine, prophecy, theology, etc that you come across.

Wouldn't taking Chuck Colson's word for it be the opposite of that?

You know what comes to my mind is the enormous spiritual burden christian broadcasters take upon themselves. just like pastors or teachers. I'm thinking James 3 here. There's a heavier judgment on those who are in a position to lead others astray.

2 Comments. 1) If he doesn't listen, how can he assume all voices on Christian radio monotone with perspective. 2) In my experience on traditional, evangelical radio, if you listen and subscribe to all the perspectives proclaimed, your theology would be so messed up, you wouldn't know what to believe. There is great diversity on Christian preaching and teaching radio...but, thank God, a sameness as well (amoung right hearted station owners) who strive for consistency for the audiences' sake. But for those who think that if there is not consistency among all the programs on a Christian station (by the way Christian is not an adjective) then one should not buy time on it... I say, if I had opportunity to preach God's Word on the Devil's station, I'd take it.

It's ironic that a community that regularly bashes the politically useful but ultimately meaningless idea of "hollywood" would have it's own version of being "PC" and celebrity idolatry. And that's exactly what "radio-orthodoxy" is...

thanks for the post.
It's good to be reminded about the dangers of the "pseudo-culture" of much of what passes as xianity in america.

And then there is the issue of "Christian" talk shows...
Sometimes there is so much venom spewed out in the name of orthodoxy that it makes me sick. The soldiers on the ramparts of the fort have turned their weapons on their own army.
They seem not to have read I Cor. 13.
Kat

I agree that we need more people thinking and reading for themselves.

Personally I don't have to listen to "Chuck Colson Radio" to know that Brian McLaren espouses a false and incomplete Gospel. I've read his books and writings:
Brian McLaren espouses a false and incomplete Gospel.

Nah... blogosphere orthopraxy is where it's at... you know, if a "Watchdawgie" site makes the charge, it MUST be true, right? Particularly if they use unfunny photoshopped images to make their charges.

In reading all these entries, it seems like perspective is a key issue. It reads as if, if you don't agree with me, you're wrong - either you misinterpret, don't listen to the right people, don't hear or study, because if you did, you'd see the right way. Which is the way I happen to see it.
I've been in discussions with folks, and I say, "You're entitled to your opinion." And they say, "Oh, but its not my opinion. It's what God says." Such is their training, which immediately shuts down any possibility of dialogue.

Too often, people who read books, listen to radio, or watch TV automatically assume that the folks who use the mass media are authorities, automatically, simply because they use mass media. We're largely programmed to think that way.

I used to joke that my students would pay a lot more attention to me, and believe everything I taught them, if I would only videotape myself teaching the same stuff and played the video back for them.

It's probably true, too. And the more professional it looks, the more likely they'll trust me... just like we're more likely to trust a professionally-published book than a independently-published one, or a radio show over a podcast, or a blogger who can spell over a pastor who sometimes confuses Elijah with Elisha.

Trouble is, few teach critical thinking any more, and pastors don't preach on the need to exercise it to the degree we should. We rarely preach on how people need to stay on their guard against false teachers and prophets. (Maybe because we can't stand up to such criticism because we're cribbing sermons out of Barclay's commentaries on Saturday night? I hope not, but sometimes it feels that way.)

That's funny...I am thoroughly conservative and I take most conservative radio with a grain of salt and a jaundiced eye. Guess I'm just weird.

How Biblical is it that Christian radio's talking heads teach the universal church? And who are they accountable to? A hand-picked board whose level of oversight we can only place blind faith in? It seems we've rejected the pope in Rome for a host of popes on the dial.

Great posting and discussion piece!
Personally I know Colson and his ministry / views very well and I am a "fan" of how McManus commincates the Gospel on a personal / passion driven bases. Both have their place, views in Christianity. If you read and ever listen to McManus, you'll hear a full Gospel teacher. Jesus is the way, the only way and following Him boldly is the greatest mission that we can be on. How and to who McManus communicates to is NOT the same that Colson is communicating with / to.
"THE GOSPEL MUST NEVER CHANGE, only how we communicate must.

We live in an ipod, spoon feed society. Read the scriptures for yourself. LIsten to the Spirit and see what is true and right. Don't let communication styles cloud your judgement. Don't let "image " or "celebraity status" cloud your judgememt. Read, study and learn for yourself. Test even your own local pastors teaching to see if what he teaches matches scripures. This is not an "emergant issue", this is a personal growth issue. "My sheep will know my voice" Only way to know the master. Is not to follow/ listen to McManus, McLaren, Colson, Olsteen, etc. But radically get to know Jesus. Hear his voice and you'll get to know what is right and true, regardless of the label or communication style.

i heard a podcast over the weekend on which the guest was john macauthur. his complaint against the emergent church boiled down to, "after all these years, somehow THEY think they've come along and figured everything out."

couldn't that be said of just about everyone - macauthur included - who has dipped a toe in the pool of stating a position on any theological issue?

i am more and more tempted to turn a deaf ear to anyone - christian, muslim, athiest, jew, blogger, milkman, a voice in my head, etc. - that seems to have EVERYTHING figured out. so many claim that the stands they take aren't their own, they're simply "what the bible says". but how many different interpretations of scripture have we had through the past four or five millenia?

you all know my favorite subject is hell. i grew up baptist, and most baptist denominations teach that those without faith in Jesus at death will be burned in hell by God for all eternity. ("but mike - this isn't our 'opinion'. it's in the bible...") who can read the recent story on CNN about the little muslim boy in iraq who was doused with gasoline and set on fire by a few sick, horrible men, and still believe that, had that boy died, God would have done to that boy just what those men did - but in an infinitely more intense manner and duration?

theology has to be fluid, regardless of what colson, macauthur, et al want to believe. we are constantly learning. burying our heads in the sand does no one any good. the world needs us to do better.

mike rucker
http://escroll.blogspot.com

Too many books, too many broadcasts, too many podcasts, too many blogs, too many TV preachers, too many denominations, too many weaklings, too many brick-heads, too many theories. Too many people selling their "personal" view of the truth to make a buck.

There is only one source of truth - God's Word breathed, and there is only one true interpreter - the Holy Spirit. To understand one requires the other. And it's free of charge!

The point I was trying to make back at the top of the comments was that this anonymous pastor doesn't seem to have the courage to take on members of his congregation who may question something he says. So... maybe I can help:

Anomymous Poster: "I have yet to discover a pastoral way of handling their unquestioning faith in the disembodied voices they hear on the commute to work everyday."

Confident Pastor: "I'm so glad you care about what I preach here and are interested in truth. Let's set up a meeting in my office this week and we'll delve further into your concerns."

See, how hard is that?

Who is Chuck Colson anyway?

If it will make any of you feel better... the Muslims, Mormons, Christian Scientist, Catholics and all the rest of the world religions have the same problems... that is, all except the real Muslims, Mormons, Christian Scientist etc. :)

No wonder so many people prefer animals. :)

With one side of the mouth we are told that God's gift is free; then we are told that "this is all you have to do (for the rest of your Life.)" Jesus knew (and still does) the hearts of men. Until we see through the heart of unbelief by experience... we can not see salvation for what He's worth and His amazing Grace.:)

His sheep still know His Voice even though there are some pretty good impersonators out there.:)

Father forgive them for they still don't know what their doing ( or do they?)

I agree that a pastor should take the time to meet with members of his congregation that question his preaching. Didn't the pastor who wrote this article do just that? He did not simply turn the church member away with a pat answer, he tried to have a conversation with him.

In my experience, there are people who question because they are truly seeking answers and there are other people who question with no intent of listening. While I do not know for certain, it sounds as if the church member in this article falls into the latter category (although maybe just on this point). It did not sound as if he wanted to learn, it sounded as if he wanted the pastor to say 'Well if Chuck Colson said it, then it must be gospel.'

As other posters have said, we have to be willing to use the Scriptures to 'test' all that we have heard/read/seen.

But what scares me is the masses that do not yet know Christ who fall for everything that they hear hook, line and sinker because they heard it on Christian radio, saw it on a religious television show or read it in a 'Christian' book. They are not yet equipped to 'test' what they have learned and they become convinced that everything is 'gospel'.

"...i am more and more tempted to turn a deaf ear to anyone - christian, muslim, athiest, jew, blogger, milkman, a voice in my head, etc. - that seems to have EVERYTHING figured out. so many claim that the stands they take aren't their own, they're simply "what the Bible says". but how many different interpretations of scripture have we had through the past four or five millennia?..."

hmm. well said.

Melody, the anonymous pastor was trying to find a pastoral way of handling the unquestionable faith of the radio faithful. Church politics run deep. Break one brick in the foundation of some and the entire faith will crack. The response often gets volatile and reactionary. Ears slam shut. After all, many are taught "witnessing" techniques that set us up to prove that we are right and "they" are wrong. Whoever "they" are.

Sometimes you just have to walk away and lose the fight. There are more important things in the world than squabbling over the meaning of the word The.

And not all interpretations are from G-d or the Holy Spirit.

Simply put, the years I've been a pastor and in other leadership roles, I have found that not the only the teaching but the vision of the church is condemned and challenged by those that think media ministry has the only way to "fish" and the final authority on all interpretations and applications of scripture.
I might speak with a questioning person once, but when it's clear about the way I see it and it's clear they are listening to the voice of a different under-shepherd, I say, "God bless you" and move on.
I appreciate media ministry, but many who embrace their ministries and message forget, "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up". I might say to this person, instead of being an armchair critic or theologian, get involved in the practical work of the local church and you will see the reality of practical love. Afterall, the media ministry is not going to be "the word made flesh" to you when you are sick, lonely, need a funeral conducted, or just plain loving correction in your life.

I have issues with McManus, McLaren, and others, but not based on any anything I hear on the radio. You'd do well to ferret out their doctrines yourself and let the Holy Spirit be your guide.

Why is this post anonymous?

What qualifies this writer to pass broad judgment on a medium (radio) that he admits he doesn't even listen to?

Melody's description of this being a "whiny, anonymous post" is accurate.

Isn't it nice how the enemy can get us taking pot shots and those who are out doing ministry? Every name mentioned in these posts is someone that is being run down my someone else who claims a "greater" measure of truth or wisedom. I like what one of my teachers once said,"I have learned not to take pot-shots at those whom I don't agree with when the fruit of their minsitry is evident."

One more thought. What was in the content of that sermon that had that congregation member trying so hard to discount the message because McManus was mentioned? Too often it has been discovered that the person complaining about the content of a sermon or Bible study is actually really miffed about the pure conviction of the Holy Spirit.

There is only one source of truth - God's Word breathed, and there is only one true interpreter - the Holy Spirit. To understand one requires the other. And it's free of charge! Tony

Amen and amen, Brother! Thus we're going to gain enough understanding to discern the measure of false in McLaren's type of "teachings".

I am one of those people who have been blessed by the radio ministries of people like James McDonald, R.C. Sproul, and Chuck Swindoll. I listen to them nearly every morning on the way to work (I have a long commute, and this is a lot better use of my time than cussing out the people who cut me off in traffic, don't you think?)

They preach and teach from the Bible, using the Bible's words, God's words, the Word. And they certainly aren't monotone or boring.

Do I agree with everything these men say? No, but I find they expand my knowledge of what the Bible says, and cause me to go check it out for myself.

My life has been transformed listening to these preachers; somewhat by what they say, but mostly by the Word of God that they bring to me through my car radio. God bless them for daring to risk the condemnation of a few detractors to bring the Word of God to many people just like me.

Hmm. I'm immensely frustrated with all the vitriol on McLaren, but that's the tip of the iceberg. What I'm really frustrated about is the fact that so many Christians think their interpretation of the Scriptures is "right" and everyone else is "wrong", to the point of questioning another person's salvation when that person advocates a different view, or asks provocative questions. What's with that?
I think it's too easy to say, "So-and-so on the radio says so-and-so is wrong because of x, y, or z" uncritically, without really going to God and wrestling over it with Him. He alone is the Source of Truth, and He alone can teach us what He knows we need to know. Why do so many people (myself included) lose sight of that in either getting caught up in the latest thing (Prayer of Jabez, etc) or in tearing the latest thing down as unBiblical? Just something on my mind.

The post was about how to handle members who takes the ideas of famous radio folks as the gospel. The issue is how to handle complaints of disgruntled members, no matter what gets them all uptight. The issue of member complaints and criticisms is one that Pastors and othe leaders, as well as husbands and wives, clerks and bosses, must face daily.

The answer is to develop a successful style of negotiating that includes problem solving and conflict management. Rarely are these critical skills covered in any schools so by the time we get into a place of leading we are clueless about handling differences of opinion. Yet, Gottman says the lack of such skills is the leading cause of divorce and Golemen says they are foundational or Primal,to all successful leadership. Church splits, trouble with church boards and family conflicts are prevented not by new radio preachers, better theology or scripture memory but by the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

So, how does one deal with a member who is uptight over Chuch Colson's rants? First, learn to listen and clarify carefully to the Complainant. Almost all Complaints are not requests for action but requests for the ear of the leader. The person in the post handled the interaction rather well. He listened and clarified and allwed the Complainant to Complain. That is good. Now relax and go about your business. Jesus promised peace to us so do not borrow the Complainant's anxiety.

Allie - you said -
"What I'm really frustrated about is the fact that so many Christians think their interpretation of the Scriptures is "right" and everyone else is "wrong", to the point of questioning another person's salvation when that person advocates a different view, or asks provocative questions."

On the contrary Allie, questioning other's interpretations is wonderful! This kind of dialog lends itself to people delving into scripture deeper, learning more, asking more questions, etc. If we all simply accepted a reletavist view of truth regarding scriptures, there would be little to no dialog whatsoever! We must, however, present these questions and "constructive" criticisms in a gently and loving way. To say nothing and leave one to a twisted or incorrect interpretation of who Jesus is would be unloving and cruel.

I had a very similar conversation, except in my case it was the Pastor and Elders who were saying the "Church Member's" lines and I was the one encouraging them to actually read and judge for themselves.

But that pastor better be careful. If his congregants don't like him quoting McManus, they might fire him if he starts quoting McLaren. ;)

I find it interesting how eager many among us seem to be to choose up sides as if Christian theology were a Michigan/Ohio State football game. It seems as if we often feel that to validate our own beliefs, or those of one we respect, we must disdain all others, especially those who disagree on some point (or appear to). One of the things that I have always admired about Colson is his willingness to venture into a discussion. Most times I agree with him; sometimes I do not. Having read only pieces of McLaren's and McManus's work, I admire their willingnes to venture into the discussion. Most of the pieces I have read I agree with; some I do not.

I have rarely, if ever, found a person (famous or not) with whom I agree on every point...not even my wife, but we're close. ;) Both Colson and those labeled (accurately or not) to be "emergent" are seeking to engage the culture with God's Word, albeit differently.

Too many of us are too criticizing and seeking out controversy to get that job done. It's a good thing heaven is big enough for all of God's disagreeing children.
What's the old saying? "Those who can, do; those who can't fill blogs with vitriolic criticism." OK...perhaps my adaptation is too liberal.

I found the post and the comments very enlightening. Recently, I have been trying to ferret out the false beliefs I have: Silly views of God like He's sitting up there in Heaven like Zeus or Thor just waiting for me to mess up so He can throw a lightening bolt or hammer or other pox on me to punish me immediately; Some kind of Christian "Karma" concept of "what goes around comes around" and "you get what you give;" We can bully God into doing what we want Him to do by "reminding" Him what His inaction will look like to the disbelieving world; That there is truth in the "Hubris of Man" -- that if I do anything at all that draws attention to myself (either among people or even God's attention) -- then He will send something immediately to knock me back 'down to size.'

Rightly, I have determined some of this has resulted from MY UNDERSTANDING and MY BRAIN'S PROCESSING OF INFORMATION taught to me in Sunday School and church growing up. (I think my brain works differently in how it sifts and processes things it is "fed.") A lot of it, though, comes from radio and TV preachers I listened to as a teen.

I stopped listening to Christian radio, once and for all, when the NRB decided that the focus of Christian broadcasting is both evangelical AND political; and broadcasters and the programs they air became arms of the government in many ways.

As one commentor states -- the Word Alone crowd misses the fact that the Word gets interpreted (to the point I can often tell you which seminary the speaker went to ...); therefore we cannot stand on Word Alone -- we have to know where the interpretation comes from and whether it is true or not. In such a religious environment, disagreements are inevitable. So, I do not want politics overrun by one interpretation of Scripture that is somehow declared to be more valid than another interpretation.

Now, the post WAS about how to handle complaints that are based on something other than scripture; how to handle complaints based on hearsay and not personal knowledge. The writer did the correct thing -- suggest the complainer find out for himself whether what he has heard is true (from both the radio "celebrity" AND from the pastor).

As I am very fond of telling people: BE A BEREAN. (And if you don't know what that means, here's a hint: Acts 17.)

I do not trust anyone who tries to classify others. Share your experiences and stories that allow you to experience the glory of your existence and growth, but keep an open mind when it comes to media that involves promotion. Ask yourself: how does it make me feel when someone has tried to close a door for me, when I know that I can operate a door by myself.