I think what you may be overlooking in your glee at the punishment of these horrible heretics is that the senate is investigating heresy. Senator Grassley is taking sides in a theological dispute.

I say this because everyone of those named comes from the same theological perspective, i.e. they are all Word of Faith preachers.

That is what you should find disturbing. The United States senate taking sides in a theological controversy.

Greg Marquez
goyomarquez@earthlink.net
www.IVChristianCenter.com

While I too abhor the actions and attitudes of the religious right, I do not rejoice in their failures. I see no reason for jubilee in the possible financial misdeeds of these organizations. While they may not represent an interpretation of Christianity that I embrace nor that I believe to be true, like it or not, they represent Christianity as a whole and thus they negatively reflect on all of us Christians, even those of us who do not align ourselves with the brand of Christianity they sell. And we should not simply be looking at the possible ramifications for us as we might have to explain ourselves, but should show compassion, concern, and forgiveness to those who have wronged us. This article does not attempt to express such feelings to these individuals.

The way I see it is that if, as Christians, we haven't called for an investigation of these charlatans on our own (I have--not that I hold any influence), nor have we taken them aside and demanded accountability, who are we to worry about government intrusion of our own ministries? If truth be known, all are at least guilty of bowing at the altar of the 501c3--spending contributions on relative frivolity at the expense of meeting the needs of the poor and oppressed, and being motivated more by tax-exemption than by our hearts of compassion for humanity.

Hinn, Copeland et al are but icons of our own greed and hypocrisy. The whole institutional religious system stinks so badly that if we were honest, and sincere in our allegiance to the teachings of Jesus, we would welcome such a cleansing from the government or whomever, because, God knows, it is long overdue.

well, being here in atlanta where these two bishops/pastors/charlatans are, i see it as just the tip of the iceberg. every weekly publication - and every saturday newspaper - shows a number of these churches, which are almost always headed by "bishop so-and-so and bishopette thus-and-such."

i believe they do this to get two checks - period. and they are both spit-polished and shined to a holy glow... but you can't tell the congregations anything - their leaders are "anointed"...

when i moved back to atlanta, and saw my first creflo dollar ad, i cracked up laughing because the tv magazine said "c. a. dollar" - and i thought to myself, "yes - c. a. dollar - and pocket it."

jesus would kick butt and take names with these criminals.

mike rucker
http://mike-rucker.blogspot.com

The issue is not theology or doctrine. The issue is legitimacy of tax exemption based on "not for profit" status. Such status is not a biblical right granted by God, it is a privilege provided by the federal government. If these ministries are not adhering to the conditions of their "tax exemption," then the government has a right and responsibility to hold them accountable. As far as this being a "slippery slope," churches, religious organizations or not-for-profit entities should not worry about being audited and pulled down the slippery slope if they practice financial integrity and adhere to the conditions of their tax exemption. I do not know if these high profile ministries have violated these conditions, but I do think their flamboyance and excess warrants the investigation. In fact, I personally believe it is long overdue.

READ THE ARTICLES AND THE LETTERS TO THE MINISTRIES. There are some shocking things going on with theses ministries. Makes a person question their motives. My prayer is for the members of these churches, that their eyes would be opened to what is going on and that their ministers don't simply dismiss these investigations as 'attacks from the devil' and encourage their members to continue to give.

"We evangelicals are trained from childhood to spot a slippery slope..."

That's classic. Thanks for the laugh.

We should not be surprised that the government is getting involved, the church sure has not. God will use authority to straighten things out, Church or government.

I am afraid of another black eye coming for Christianity though. I am glad that the church has come through this before and been bloodied and bruised, but 2000 years later we still stand. This will not bring us down a path that God is not already aware of.

Read Isaiah 58

What God wants and promises to bless are those who take care of the poor, the widows, the fatherless.

These people will need to account to God some day for their abuse of the Gospel. That Senator Grassley wants to get in on the action now, more power to him.

Just as the Phelps' of Westboro Baptist 'church' in Kansas paint Christians with a broad brush of hatred and bigotry, these selfish ministries paint us as money hungry preachers only out to fleece the flock.

There seems to be a general, presupposed consensus on this blog, regarding the motivations of these ministries.

I am familiar with many of these and can testify to the fact that people like Joyce Meyer (who keeps her financials published on her website) is extremely proactive in helping the poor. Kenneth Copeland has worldwide offices-- including Africa, that are extremely proactive in helping the impoverished.

Yes, they have airplanes. I know for a fact that Kenneth Copeland Ministries has a $20 million, debt-free Citation jet. It was purchased for him by his partners. But what many don't realize is that Kenneth Copeland has personally GIVEN AWAY 23 airplanes to other ministries.

Is it really wrong for a man who has given away 23 airplanes to own one?

Are all these men perfect? Probably not. But most have made their "fortunes' through book sales, not stealing from ministry coffers.

If they're not breaking any laws, I hope the government will leave them alone. If their motives are wrong, God will deal with that. Our job is just to pray that they are led by God's Spirit and operating according to His stewardship.

Your paranoia is not as unfounded as you may think.

Gregg referred to nonprofit status as "a privilege provided by the federal government".

Not quite. It is a constitutional right. One that we may end up fighting to keep before long. I write about this more at:
http://nonprofitcfo.wordpress.com/

How many struggling people are suckered into sacrificially giving to these ministries in the hope of receiving God’s blessing? How many people are led astray? And how many non-Christians are given a false impression of Christ, the Bible, and his Church?

Probably tens of thousands, if not more!

-bill
Spiritual Oasis Blog

I am glad to see that I am not the only one taking exception to this. I have a post up on my blog about this. We really need to be able to talk about this.

I don't think involving the government is the right thing to do unless the the law is being broken.

In this case it could be a matter of the hypocrites investigating the hypocrites. Where does that get us? We need to hold both groups accountable. We need to be better examples.

Many of the people I have heard say 'they should pass a law for that' are looking for some result or benefit without putting in any effort to make changes.

We need to have better ideas, better arguments and better reasons than those we don't agree with.

It's time for all of us to live the way Christ called us to and convince more people to do that.

Are we influencing the culture, the world the way Christ called us to?

The real tragety is not that the federal government is considering this course of action, (as unconstitutional as it may be) but rather the family of God has looked the other way and allowed this situation to be tolerated. The accountability factor has been solely lacking and the fault lies squarely in the churches unwillingness to call it for what it is, fleecing the flock. The fleecing of the flock by those who see the gospel as nothing more than the means to making money and profitting from gullible and undescerning Christians should give us all pause as to the state of the America/westernized church. Only in America!

I agree with Ted (#2).

I also think of the words, "judgment must begin at the household of God/family of believers." And that includes all of us. So we best all be accountable to God and to each other.

I do wonder why all we do should not be more of an open book. Paul seemed to think and live that way.

Let me add to that that I do see the point you make, Skye, about not wanting the government to be scanning with microscopic vision. On the other hand, wouldn't it be good for the world to see the integrity of Christians and churches?

We are told to avoid even the appearance of evil, to be as innocent as doves and as wise as serpents. That said, I will also say that these ministries also pull funds from local church, the churches that marry them, bury them, visit them in the hospitals, nursing homes and in their homes. These ministries don't. In that regard, I find them at fault. In the end, they may do wonderful things in other places, but those who have given sacrificially, and the local churches that have their resources redirected, they are the ones that suffer in the end.

i'm not opposed to these ministries being investigated per se, but i'd like to know what others think about this state interference in the church, since the government is notoriously, paranoidally (is that a word? i doubt it) vigilant about the separation of church and state. this, not our image as believers (which, someone noted, has suffered before yet here we still stand), is what concerns me the most.

While we may not look forward to it, engaging these difficult issues grants us an opportunity to point people to Jesus through our own stories of faith and repentance.

First of all I think we all that want to throw our opinion out there need to have a few more facts before we put any of these religious leaders in the gallows. Lets be smart about this, no matter if you agree or disagree with theology, doctrine or what there favirate color is doesnt change the fact that if these guys start getting heat from the gvornment than you can count on every church in America to get the heat also. You may say that you are in good standing and have nothing to wory about but I would rather not have to deal with the government breathing down my neck more than I have to. The only ones that will get hurt from this investigation are the churches like mine that are trying to get our legs underneath us and are walking out our calling to bring people to Christ and have a passion to see lives transformed. So please, just because you see things differently than someone else, dont blow it for all of us.

Sometimes the seeds we plant grow up to haunt us. Churches and ministries merit non-profit status, but the freedom from financial transparency we secured for ourselves legislatively was maybe not so good.

If we insist on freedom from financial transparency that other non-profits are subject to then perhaps we need to be more rigorous in requiring it of ourselves.

While I agree with the first half of your blog, I have a serious problem with your concluding paragraphs. These televangelists are a scourge on our faith. They deserve to be held legally accountable for their actions, whether that "indicts" our whole faith or not. It is like saying we should not charge a president or member of congress for a crime because it would "indict" us in the eyes of the rest of the world. I don't care what people think of our faith as a whole. Any logical person will understand that there are so many of us, no one person can speak for the whole group.

Thank you for your article. I agree that "we should not mourn to see these ministries held accountable."

George Morris wrote...

"Lets be smart about this, no matter if you agree or disagree with theology, doctrine or what there favirate color is....."

As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather be biblically correct than "smart" anytime.

When we as Christians begin to thinks it's more important to be pragmatic in our decisions within the body of Christ than being faithful to what the Holy Scriptures say is correct teaching & what we should believe and do out of the love that our Lord has poured into our hearts, then what Jesus said will happen to those poor souls who lead others into the ditch is surely not far away.

You might be interested in D. Michael Lindsay's criticism that evangelical executives are too silent on the issue of CEO pay:
http://www.religionwriter.com/evangelicals/evangelical-executives-qa-with-d-michael-lindsay/

Jim Cross wrote:
"Your paranoia is not as unfounded as you may think.

Gregg referred to nonprofit status as "a privilege provided by the federal government".

Not quite. It is a constitutional right. One that we may end up fighting to keep before long."

The First Amendment states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

Jim, are you arguing that the First Amendment guarantees the right of churches to be run as non-profit organizations?? Are you equating the amendment's term "free" with non-profit??

I'm sorry, Jim, but I think that is an unspannable chasm. As Gregg mentions, non-profit status is a privelege not a right. I agree with others on this blog that church finances should be transparent, because suspicion hurts us all . . . in the eyes of believers and non-believers.

Before Chuck Grassely opened the investigation, I actually wrote about this in my blog found at www.plungefaith.blogspot.com

Honestly, I think what is happening among these rich evangelical elites is representative of a deeper problem in Christendom. We are more materialistic than we care to admit. We have allowed the world to squeeze us into it's mold. God have mercy

Some of these guys, if not all, may be lovers of money and be taking advantage of the poor. But as long as their message is Biblical and sincere, and their financial dealings are all legal and transparent then I got no beef with them. While I can agree wih the guy who says, "sell the jet and support 1,000 Indian Pastor's for 10 years . . ." I will also be the first to say that if you are being invited to teach all over the world, year after year . . . buy a jet. You and I have 2 cars per family while many African Pastors cannot afford even a bicycle.

I don't know, guess I am not ready to burn these guys down just yet, and I sure dig Joyce's teaching sometimes :0)