The reason that schools are in trouble is exactly this kind of thinking. The church should be involved in schools, actually encouraging Christians to be teachers, encouraging parents to be involved as a positive force for change (instead of asking for Harry Potter books to be banned) and then also teaching their children at home about moral issues (which is where moral issues should be taught).

If the church did these things schools would not be perfect, but they would be much better places. Instead what I usually hear is that schools cost too much, I don't want my kids to go to school with "those" kids or complaints about schools teaching "moral" issues (sex education, homosexuality, diversity, values). This is another issue where the church needs to stop complaining and do something. When was the last time your church spent any time praying for the schools in your community. What about a work project to help clean up a school or playground. How many people at your church regularly (or ever) volunteer at their local schools.

wow.... i'm embarrassed that a high level Christian leader is encouraging Christ followers to leave the public schools....

Where is the Christian parent's responsibility to guide the child while they are IN the school? Shouldn't the parent be guiding the child as they read this stuff to explain the inappropriate nature of it?

Are we so quick to leave (to be raptured) out of this current situation that we are willing to leave the the world to its own devices? Without any Christian influence?

to see just how irrelevant 21st century christianity has become, thanks to the likes of bibliolators like mr. mohler, you need do nothing more than tie the initial words of this post...

Mohler argues that 'public schools are prime battlegrounds for cultural conflict.'

...to the solution proposed in the subheading...

...so it’s time for Christians to abandon public schools.

voila, problem solved. i mean, we certainly don't want to have to bother with cultural conflict, right?

i've got rhymes and reasons,
but i ain't got no one fooled -
somebody better watch my back.
white collar job,
and my kids are private-schooled -
but have i called this kettle black?

What a superb opportunity to talk to our children about the world and God’s plan for society. To show them that it doesn’t matter what position of social status you have, even kings are subject to God’s rule and authority. Then to encourage children to think about how they would relate to people who have different lifestyles – maybe ask them to consider how they could demonstrate Jesus’ love to people who don’t live according to God’s authority.

Of course we could do what Christians have been doing for generations, run away, pull back into our own community, lift up the draw bridge and never come out. But then when these children need to go into the real world, speak to people who have different backgrounds and opinions, they’re not going to be equipped to face the challenge.

PS – I’m completely for home schooling. I think everything that children do in school should be filtered through parents. Parents should be asking “what did you learn today?” and also “what do you think about that?”, then we can give our children proper direction that will be useful in a multi-faith world.

I am torn. I grew up in west Michigan, best described as a place where the question was not 'do you go to church?' but 'what church do you go to?' In that context any damage a public school (where teachers mostly do attend church) administer can be undone by parents and church after hours.

But then if I lived in a more liberal state... well then... would I do more damage as the primary teacher? Would I impart such fundamental views that Anna would be ill equiped to live in the real world? Does TV and internet do more teaching than school? I will not decide my choice on one issue, a king and king book but will have to look at the big picture asking God to let me see it through his eyes. One book is one drop, not a flood, look at all the raindrops to decide if the river will rise and wash away the house.

The premise of this arguement is that Dr. Mohler thinks that we can not teach our children at home. I believe that the church should be helping in the home to teach parents how to be parents, how to model God's love etcetera. Simply pulling them from school will make us look even more scared to keep engaged in the culture then we have in the past.

If my child came home with a book like the one mentioned in Massachussets I would welcome it as a time to teach my child why we do not believe that. I would encourage him to grow his own moral fibers so that he can be a critical thinking adult who will stand up for what he believes. Our generation is way to wishy washy as it is because we have taken children out of situations that might bring about a little critical thinking and conflict. We need to stand up now, not later. One person taking a stand will encourage two more to follow. Eventually you will have a movement.

As a Christian high school teacher I could say so much about this. I certainly support Christian education but not if its because of a retreatist mentality.

Churches should not be dictating what parents do with their children. There are already too many Christians who are sheep. It is ultimately the parents responsibility before the Lord to raise their Children in a Godly manner. That can be done in a Christian school or not.

Christian schools certainly have their problems. Apathy. Hypocrisy. Bitterness towards God and parents for making them be in such an environment. It's not for every kid. And our God is big enough to work in all different environments.

Geesh. Its frustrating how scared some Christians are of our culture. They probably wouldn't want their son/daughter to have me as a Bible teacher :)

Abdicating our responsibility as parents to teachers (public school or Christian school) is irresponsible. Eric's comment is spot on. We have a responsibility as Christians to raise our children to be in the world, but not of it. Sheltering them by keeping them out of public schools won't accomplish that.

i remember watching on tv one time - may have been gilligan's island, scooby-doo - might have even been one of the harry potter movies - anyway, one of the characters in a particular scene had somehow obtained the benefit of being invisible. so, for instance, if the person was carrying a cup in the room, all you would see would be the cup floating through the air.

to actually determine if the invisible person was really there - or, perhaps to a lesser degree, to determine that individual's characteristics - one would only need to throw a sheet over the person, and the sheet would begin to reveal the unseen guest.

i'm only going to say this once, so pay attention:

the problem that we have today in 21st century christianity is we've gotten so caught up in looking at the sheet that we essentially do not care at all about the features of the invisible guest in the room.

(wow...mike...that's pretty deep - almost like a parable or something...)

let him who has ears to hear and all that stuff...

mike rucker
http://mikerucker.wordpress.com

Sadly, it is no longer surprising to me to hear of yet another my-parents-generation Christian leader declare doom and gloom for our schools, our culture, or our society. Does he not know that the culture wars are over? It's yesterday's battle -- and a meaningless one at that.

Where are the elder voices declaring that the Kingdom is advancing? Where are the elder voices prodding us to participate in the restoration of our world? Where are the elder voices speaking words of anticipation and hope? As a twentysomething, it's infuriating to watch as respected leaders who have such influence use it to tell a story of fear and withdrawal.

You've been given a loud voice, Dr. Mohler. Please use it to call us to restoring, hopeful Kingdom.

I do think we should try to have a positive influence on our local schools. The fear that drives us, however, is that sometimes we feel ill equipped to face the immensity of the cultures power, and the disdain that is heaped upon anyone who dares to criticize the trends. Our local high school has a GLBT club of some sort on campus, and also a devout Christian as Assistant Principal. I have never spoken to him about this (to my shame, I suppose) but I assume he either doesn't object, or is reluctant to stand against this.
I think a good question for Mohler would be "What do you suggest we do to make a difference in public schools, if anything?" Or is retreat the only answer, in his view?

I send my seven year old daughter to a public school. I regularly volunteer my time in her classroom. And we talk about cultural issues that confront her.

But like Ryan, I'm in West Michigan. My daughter's school is practically Christian in its demographics. Would I be as willing to send her into a public school in a far less Christian region?

Yes, I agree that parents are responsible to not only protect their children from dangerous influences, but also educate and equip them to face those dangers head on. But at what age are children capable of entering the battle? Are we asking too much of our kids by sending them out too early? Let's remember that Jesus did not begin his public ministry until he was 30.

I don't know the full context of Mr. Mohler's comments to judge his complete thoughts on the matter. But I will say this - far too many "Christian" parents are not actively involved in the education of their children. They assume public schools are the same as they were 30 years ago, and that their kids will be just fine. So, if a comment like this wakes parents up to the reality of the war that is being waged for their kids' souls, then bring it on.

Our kids have all been in a mix of public and private Christian schools. What alarms us about public schools is that our kids get 6 hours or more of indoctrination that we have to somehow undo in the few hours we have with them before bedtime. In middle school onward that becomes nearly impossible because the values of the kids' peers are far more influential than the parents' values.

As much as I agree that Christians need to be involved in the public school systems, the bottom line is that parents are responsible for their own children's spiritual well-being first and foremost.

I think it is the parent's responsibility to bring up their children to know and love God.

If we fail at this, Christianity retreats.

We are failing miserably. Mostly because we send our raw recruits into the enemy training camp. Many parents also fail to disciple their children, instead outsourcing the job to Sunday School teachers.

There are plenty of ways for mature Christians to be a light within the Public school system without sacrificing our own children go get there..

I don't think all schools are bad, or that no Christians children should be in the schools, but it is a very good idea to have a plan B. Those who sacrifice to disciple their children themselves should be commended.

I know that NOTHING I learned in school had as much impact on me as what my parents told me. They could have told me something completely contradictory to what I learned in school, and if they had some way to explain it, I would trust them every time. I think kids can remain in public schools as long as the parents are active in their educations and monitor the curriculum. If the find something objectionable, or if their child surprises them with some outrageous "fact" that they learned in school, it can be a teachable moment.

* The parent can explain that they think the school is wrong on this point, and explain why.

* They can explain that teachers are right about most things, but not necessarily everything.

* They can explain that we still owe respect to the teacher and our classmates, even if we think they are wrong.

* They can let the child know that they don’t expect them, at such a young age, to have the courage to speak up or to try to correct anybody. That will come later. Respectful silence is better.

Oooh that is what we need... more separation from people that need to be saved.

Wowzers.

How sad. Also how so doesn't work. I know many kids who went to public Schools, stood up and to this day are faithful to Christ and serving His church. I know many, if not more, others who were withdrawn (Home Schooled) or sent to the "safe" school and are nowhere near following Christ. I have no problem with Christian Schools or Home Schooling. Making a statement that we need a withdrawal strategy is simply pathetic and a failure to follow Christ. It was something about going, make disciples not withdraw to make disciples.

What's today's equivalent of Jesus sitting down for dinner with a tax collector? Joining the local GLBT group in your school?

Jesus didn't ignore, condemn, etc. people and run away. He actively engaged the culture he was in.

Finally someone is speaking some sense. I don't always agree with Mohler, but this issue he is absolutely on target. Some try to say, we need to engage the culture - then engage the culture but don't sacrifice your kids on the "engage the culture" altar. Children do not have the spiritual and emotional filters that adults do. When you observe children who have been homeschooled and children who have gone to public school, even though their parents are "good" Christians, the homeschooled kids are much more wholesome. This is true the vast majority of the times.

There are reasons why some Christian parents don't want to get their kids out of public schools. (1) Fear of what their teacher friends and others would say - standard peer pressure that they are "trying" teach their kids to avoid. (2)Lack of money to send to a private/Christian school. This is a very valid reason, but homeschooling is very inexpensive. (3) Two income households. There are times when both parents have to work and homeschooling is not a feasible option at all. However, many times these are not "have to" but want to work, because they have rejected the Biblical value of mothering and being a stay-at-home mom. Peer pressure again. (4) Parents who are really disengaged from the life of their children. (5) Carnal parents.

Granted there are some pockets of good education and somewhat wholesome schools. This is rare and fleeting.

Where have people's priorities gone. It is appalling to hear others say keep your kids in public schools. Do you really know what goes on in those schools. If you were engaged
in the life of your child and the schools they are attending - it would not be long before you were looking for an exit strategy yourself.

as much as we try to protect our children, we can't. we can never expect a school to align to our personal beliefs. therefore we need to teach our kids how to be salt and light in a dark and bland world.

teach them how to love god and love others.

What exactly is it in public schools that we should be protecting our children from? Diversity? Opinions? Science? Why would Christian parents want to prevent their children from discovering the beauty of the larger community? Maybe instead of burying themselves and their kids in fear parents could become more active in the social structures that are formative in their children's lives. Join the PTA! Teach! Be active in the school board activities! Educate yourself on the realities of science, and diversity rather than running in terror everytime your local pastor yells wolf.

Wow! Maybe we should also start building bigger walls around our churches too. That way we can keep all that sin outside. I have a incredibly hard time believing Mohler would actually believe that we should abandon a place that desperatly needs the message of hope Christ brings.

Is it challenging to live as light in a dark place? Absolutely. However, the experience will not only make our beliefs real, it just might help shift our cultures beliefs too.

The "escape" mentality that some Christians seem to propose only makes me wish for more people who will live like Christ in our world. Christians don't need to be judgemental, just loving.

After reading through the comments, apparently I am one of the few that agree with this guy. My daughter is not a missionary to this world yet and her faith has yet to really become concrete for her.
So I would feel utterly irresponsible sending her off to who knows what to learn whatever the State of Maryland deems important. In public schools she will get to interact and learn life skills from people who do not share our beliefs at all and may in fact be opposed to our beliefs.

My wife and I refuse to abdicate our God given responsibility of raising our daughter to the State. Any Christian that refuses to acknowledge the problems of public schooling today is either naive or much worse.

I am a public school teacher and my children will NEVER attend public schools. Does the church have a responsibility to provide alternative education? No. But, every parent has the right and the responsibility to make sure that his or her children are educated to the glory of God. And there is no way that can happen in our public schools. Children are too easily swayed by what they are told by adult authority figures such as teachers. I refuse to subject my children to that. It is my firm committment that my daughter will recieve a solid foundation of Christian teaching and biblical principles. She will attend a private Christian school, and I will make the sacrifices necessary for that to happen.

All these arguments are interesting, but unpersuasive. Parents are certainly responsible to teach their children Christian character and more. And the church should be helping in that. But do they also teach their kids to read well, to write coherently, to understand math, science and history? Are they academically equipped to be contributing citizens in the world in which they live? Probably not.

I served as the principal of a Christian school, and taught at a Christian university. I can attest that the public schools are not doing their job. American public school student are woefully ill-prepared for both higher education and life in a democratic society.

The public schools are not doing their job. But neither are the parents, and neither are many Christian schools.

So what about those too poor to afford the costs of Christian Schools? There was a time when Sunday School was to educate those who could not go to school. Where is that ethic now? Talk about making a difference in society!

This is not a "one shoe fits all" kind of situation and I believe that each parent is responsible before God for the teaching/training of each child in his family. That said, I can see where different children require different methods. Of our 3 children, 2 were educated in a mix of public/"christian" schools, and our youngest had a mix of homeschooling/"christian" schooling. The thing I learned from all this is that "christian" education is not always Christian. Public schooling is not necessarily anti-christian. Homeschooling gave me the best understanding of my child and his needs. All of my children benefited in some ways from each method.

Dear Editor,
No need to post this, but I just want to send a big hearty thank you for hosting these discussions.
I for one appreciate your patience, and willingness to put up with the likes of me and others.
These are tough topics, and very relevant, and I for one can see that these are extrememly important that need to be discussed.

Again, thank you!

Sincerely,
Sheerahkahn

Well, certainly it is important to engage the culture and be salt and light to public schools. And we can do this in all sorts of ways, including volunteer work, mentoring, and encouraging Christians to become teachers, as others have pointed out.

When it comes to our own kids, though, our primary decision about where to send them to school shouldn't be based on what is good for the culture, but what is good for our children. That is the responsibility God has given us. And this decision should be done on a case-by-case basis.

SOME kids will really grow and benefit from being in a challenging secular environment that will stretch their minds and values. SOME kids will bring their questions to their parents, and trust mom and dad over Eddie Hascal or Mrs. Jones. But you'd be surprised how many kids don't. I know I felt embarrased to admit all my doubts when I started learning about evolution (which began in 1st grade). And I'm really greatful for the amazing Christians I met in the one year I did have at a private school.

On the other hand, public school is absolutely the best setting for my special needs brother. There are so many caring, trained, talented people who are able to help him.

It all depends on the situation. Parents should not sacrifice their children to an ideal. Parents need to know their kids--and teachers--well enough to make wise, loving decisions.

A better idea: If we actually spoke and lived the Gospel in our churches, and maybe even encouraged some more formal religious education in evangelical churches (not in a suffocating or legalistic way-- but in the positive way I feel more Jewish congregations invest in the minds of their children, teaching their Scriptures and traditions), we might not have this problem.

I am a senior in college, single, no kids. But theoretically speaking, I think I would welcome the opportunity to talk with my child about King and King, introducing them at an early age to the various ideas that exist about gender and sexuality, how people that are different are often marginalized, etc. and what I believe about homosexuality and how the LGBTQ community should be treated by the church. Granted, translating all this into 7yo speak wouldn't be a piece of cake. But I think it's possible, even necessary, to have such discussions.

How would we talk with a child about war? Or divorce? Or the AIDS epidemic? Are not all of these things issues than will be, and should be, exposed to?

We can only teach our children to respond to the world with the hope of Christ if we know that hope and know that world.

Mohler's take is thought provoking. But ultimately I think it is a simplistic one. For one thing,public school systems vary greatly across the country. And the quality of homeschooling (and the quality of parenting) varies greatly as well. When I think of the thousands of kids in our community who are passionate witnesses for Christ in the public schools I am excited for what God is doing through them. Billy Steven's comment that homeschoolers are much more "wholesome" than other kids comes across as especially arrogant and a bit ignorant. Choose to homeschool if you want -- I respect the choice --but don't denigrate kids and parents who choose otherwise. If I judged you solely on your post I would say your kids are getting an advanced education in pride and prejudice.

I'd like to offer a few observations based on personal experience. Mr. Mohler needs a course in critical thinking skills, and effective cultural engagement. And then I'd like to send him home with half a dozen kids, from toddler to teens, and let him try homeschooling for a couple of years. Next I'd pack him off to a Christian highschool, and let him try to disciple restless teens into their early college years. THEN I'd be interested in his insights on Christian education.

We homeschooled our (now adult) children for about 8 years, and then sent them to Christian and public schools for middle and highschool. IMHO- there are just no easy answers on trying to raise godly discerning kids. It is best approached on your knees, with much humility and prayer, and the respectful acknowledgement that God is not obligated to lead each of us in exactly the same way. I have learned that homeschooling is not some magic process that turns out spiritual and academic supergiants. It's a heck of a lot harder than it looks in the pretty advertising. Frankly, some families aren't able-and shouldn't try-to handle the intensive dynamics that come with 24/7 immersion in kidlife. And unfortunately, Pharisees can wear denim jumpers and drive minivans. And let's be honest here- like any other institution, Christian schools can be brutal. Though some are doing a wonderful job, some are not. The can suffer from inadequate funding, substandard teachers, limited curriculum and opportunities, and a few wierdnesses unique to inbred conservative Christianity.
But public school is not necessarily all about truth and beauty either. Our kids wrestled with the reality that neither we-or our church youthgroup-adequately prepared them to deal with life "outside the Christian fortress." We simply didn't comprehend how intensely antagonist the culture is towards Christians. Their faith has been challenged in some extremely powerful and subtle ways. So I would suggest that-whether we home/public or Christian school our kids, we must teach them how to engage with the culture in ways that are loving, humble and realistic. We must find ways to help them own their own faith, not just tag along on ours. And we need to challenge them with opportunities to become radical sold-out servants and lovers of Jesus, instead of youth group ski-trip participants. Like I wrote, no easy answers. Let's pray for one other.

I've spent my entire education thus far in public schools and wouldn't trade it for anything. Yes, I've had my series of struggles with faith and temptation. I'm not perfect, nor is anyone else. However, if I had the choice to do it over I would throw myself right back into the public school system. Removing a Christian presence from public schools would be a disaster. Christian students are the best influence that Christianity has in public schools.

In addition, doubt, struggles and forcing a student to ask questions about their faith is the best path for creating strong Christians. Just look at the disciples, they were facing a lot of junk, worse then students in public school do today, and they are about the same age as our students. What if the disciples decided to remove themselves from the public?

Removing students from public schools puts them in a bubble creating one crazy experience for them once they finally encounter the "real world."

Finally, it is the responsibility of the Church and parents to harness this time of questioning for their students. Doubt isn't bad, Thomas is praised for it by Jesus. But doubt without someone to walk with them through it can be a very scary thing. Parents and the Church have to be willing to deal with hard questions no matter how difficult they may be. And a simple response of the "bible says so" is not my idea of dealing with difficult questions. It takes time, energy, courage, strength, and most importantly, God's presence to walk through these times with your student. They're on their path to find themselves, to find their own authentic faith and to find who they are to become through Christ.

Let's encourage them through this and take the time to listen to their hearts.

I think an angle rich for consideration is the philosophical starting point that's behind Dr. Mohler's comments: REFORMED THEOLOGY.
While I'm very far from holding a Reformed theology myself, I can appreciate how it would lead to a strategy of withdrawing, isolating and, daresay, protecting.
One of the values I've heard from many Reformed friends is something along the lines of "God's salvation has been extended to our family and should be safeguarded."
From my more evangelical friends I hear more of the sentiment reflected in most of these blog comments, something along the lines of: "God wants us to mix with the sinners so that some might be saved."
What seems important to realize is that different theological starting points will lead to different strategies/expressions for all sorts of topics, including this one about education.
I know from firsthand experience that not all home/private school families make their decision out of a Reformed theology, but I do get the strong sense that Dr. Mohler's advice here is a direct outflow of HIS Reformed thinking.

I'm curious if others see this connection???

Chad,
Thanks for your note. I think this is an important element in the discussion. Having grown up Southern Baptist, I can say with a fair amount of confidence that people in those circles use "Reformed" and "Calvinist" interchangeably; that is, they are "reformed" on the issue of conversion only (it's hard to be Reformed, for example, and not hold to infant baptism, which Mohler does not). A robust, thoughtful Reformed theology will not encourage withdrawal from society, even though it emphasizes covenant. In fact, it will assume the church (as the covenant community) has the responsibility to rear its children in the faith, even while they participate fully in society. So, I think you're exactly right that the issue is Mohler's version of Reformed theology/Calvinism, but not Reformed theology in and of itself. Also, I wouldn't draw a distinction between Reformed and evangelical. There are plenty of folks who are one and not the other, but there are likewise plenty who are both. Grace and peace.

I prefer Tony Evans' approach: Churches adopt public schools--specifically troubled inner-city ones--and transform them, instead of abandoning them.

"The difference between Jesus' holiness ethic and that of the Pharisees is this: the Pharisees refuse to touch any unclean thing. Jesus aims to make the unclean holy."

Mark Galli, Jesus Mean and Wild

gimme a break.
this is nothing new.
Dobson has been spewing this dreck for a while.

Hannah Flynn....Wonderful post and written from experience, not ideology. No easy answers here but humility before God and others goes a long way. Thanks for being so honest.

Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, and said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. - matthew 11:2-5

you know what i didn't see in this text until just recently? for Jesus to do all these things, He had to be out amongst the blind, and the lame, and the lepers, and the dead, and the poor.

it's amazing what you can find in scripture when you stop parsing it and start reading it...

I would also like to say “thank you” to Hannah Flynn for a very thoughtful response. My wife and I have two lovely daughters. One is a junior in high school, the other an 8th-grader. Both have always attended public schools and we wouldn't have it any other way. Both have served as strong Christian examples in their schools. I think we give our kids too little credit for the strength and maturity of their spiritual natures, and I think we give the Holy Spirit too little credit for His ability to work through children as much as "mature" adult Christians.

My wife and I talk to our girls about what they're learning regardless of where they're learning it; in public school, Sunday school, youth group, other clubs and groups (Christian or not). I've had many a discussion with both of my girls in which I've had to guide them around some "questionable" teaching . . . and I've done so with what they've learned in Christian settings as often as I've done so with what they've learned in public settings. There are a lot of false teachings out there which come from both public and Christian teachers/textbooks.

I've also spent a great deal of time asking questions they don't want to answer, such as "do you agree?", "why do agree/disagree?", "do you understand what it means to agree/disagree?", "what does mean for how you approach someone who disagrees with you?", etc. My goal isn't to teach them to believe what I believe, but to help them understand why they believe what they believe and what that means for how they're to interact with the world.

Jesus calls His disciples to be missionaries to all the nations, including our own. How can we do that if we're separating ourselves from others?

I think that Dr. Mohler makes a good point that we need to protect children from the corruption of our society and the worldview of Secular Humanism that is taught in public schools. Children need to be instructed and taught the truths that are given to us in God's Word first at home and then in the church. Our children are going to eventually have to face the conflicting worldviews of the world, but it is our job to make sure and prepare them how to respond to out culture through the eyes of a Christian worldview. I am not sure that removing children from this environment is the answer. Having grown up in a Christian school where the Bible is clearly taught. I know that there is great value in a Christian education for children, but I am not sure if this is a possible option for many people due to the high costs involved. I think that the minimal thing that parents should do is to address the issues of conflicting values as they arise with their children and teach them what the Bible says regarding the issues. Our children can be great witnesses for Jesus Christ in the midst of a public school. We just have to take the time to prepare them and teach them how to respond in love to others through the context of a Christian worldview.

We have done it all. We homeschooled our son and daughter through elementary school. (I would reccomend that to anyone who can) They entered a charter school in middle school, where they excelled. My daughter is in college. My son attends the local public high school. We made our education decisions on a year by year basis and don't regret a single thing.

The question is: are YOU willing to take the responsibility for preparing your kids for the challenges to their faith that come from the outside world? I work now in the public schools and I see the challenge to Christianity as early as first grade, not directly, not obviously, its subtle. But my son in high school and my daughter at a state university encounter that challenge face to face every day.

We put alot of effort and prayer into preparing them for that challenge. God has been faithful. My kids stand up for their faith.

The bottom line is YOU ARE A HOMESCHOOLER whether you want to be or not and regardless of where your kids attend school.

One more thing, I'm 46 years old and pursuing a license to teach math in the public schools. Perhaps I will have opportunities to be salt and light. Perhaps more Christians should enter this profession.

I commend Mohler for tackling these issues in the book "Culture Shift". I have not read the book so I cannot comment on the book itself. However, I am aware of the pitfalls of a public education as well as the pitfalls of a church trying to be more than a church.

As far as education goes, churches should strive to be biblical in all aspects. They should be focused on equipping the saints for the work of the ministry as Eph 4 says. Biblical education and application should be the Church's primary focus. Taking on the role of primary and secondary education provided by the government and other "expert" entities should not be its charge. Once we equip our church members, they will be good soldiers anywhere, including the public schools.

Compare and contrast:

Jesus says: “Go into all the world and make disciples of all nations.”

Evangelical culture critic Al Mohler says: “Abandon the world, shelter church kids, and live in fear of being polluted by a national education crisis.”

No contest.

Thank God church leaders in New York City, where 1.2 million children attend public schools every day, have rediscovered the Great Commission as it relates to schools. In January, the Coalition of Urban Youth Workers announced 2020 Vision for Schools, a campaign to reform public education within a single generation of students. Ironically, given Mr. Mohler’s Southern Baptist credentials, Baptist leaders in NYC were among the first to embrace 2020 Vision.

More here: www.2020Schools.net.

As an Englishman born + raised, I find Mohler's remarks absurd.

In Britain, evangelical Christians are marginalised and significantly in the minority. My sister and I were the only Christian-raised kids in our entire school for almost the entirity of our schooling. In my freshman year at university, there were just two of us Christians in my college year.

Yet, throughout my life, I have had innumerable natural-feeling chances to share my faith and also to lead a fair number of people to Christ who still walk with him: people of other faiths, agnostics, pagans, nominal Christians. Why? Because I was where they were and so the subject came up. It's that simple.

If you want to reach the world, you have to be there. That's what happens in post-Christian, neo-pagan missionary contexts like ours in Great Britain. Mr Mohler needs to repent of leadeing Christians AWAY from missional engagement. His teaching is almost the polar opposite of jesus' salt+light teaching.

The real issues here are political correctness and Lack of parental responsibility. Many take the position that we should not retreat but fix the schools. Fixing American government will be the first order because these are public schools. Then fixing the society that has gone haywire in its values and practice will address the problems our children will face in dealing with other children in the school whose parents just plain do not care. Dr Mohler is bold enough to state the truth that while we must not retreat from these issues, to continue to sacrifice our children on the front lines of the cultural wars is obscene.

I have taught in both public and Christian schools. 2 years in a Christian K-8, 5 years in a Christian 9-12 and 13 years in public school grades 7-12 which is my current assignment. (I can't possibly be that old). I feel like I've seen it all. There is absolutely no question in my mind that parenting AT HOME is way beyond anything that happens at school. This is where core values are taught. The influence of school is mostly to fill a vacuum where nothing of value is happening at home. This is where teaching as ministry comes in. The most difficult children to reach are the children from Christian homes where what happens at home is inconsistent with professed belief. Even a Christian school can't fix that.

I havn't read the book but the premise, as described, is sad. I agree with Jeremy above that... "If you want to reach the world you have to be there". Pretty simple.

I am concerned that this call to retreat reflects a posture of fear and a lack of love for the world. Parents need to be committed to protect their kids for sure - but to equip them can be a greater and companion vision.

I speak with a unique perspective. All of my formal education (22 years worth) has been from Christian institutions. I am thankful for that. I am proud of that. My father was a Christian school administrator and my mother a Christian school teacher before their call to missions. My wife's education was also exclusively Christian.

I have a great relationship with our local Christian school. Their administrators and I have always been personal friends. I speak in their chapel many times each year.

Yet for our children we have chosen to place them in the public school system. This is our decision... we don't put it on others. We have chosen this way for a host of reasons. The primary reason is to teach our kids that being a Christian is not about isolating yourself from the world around you, but choosing to put yourself in a place of commonality to influence for the sake of Jesus. Isn't that what He did?

It's ironic, because a grassroots coalition of urban youth workers in New York City is advocating just the opposite in a plan they're calling the 2020 Vision for Schools. It's a campaign to reform public education within a single generation of students (the graduating class of 2020) by mobilizing churches to adopt and actually become deeply involved in their local schools. Check it it out at 2020schools.net. What's even more interesting, if I'm not mistaken, is that this 2020 Vision for Schools is building on a highly successful Southern Baptist Convention program called Paint the Town, in which churches helped paint classroom and hallway walls in inner city NY schools. Here's an article: http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=23923

If Christian parents had any power to direct the learning that goes on in public schools there may be some reason for their children to attend. But that will never be true as long as secular government is in charge. We must understand that the schools are not public but government schools. Because whoever pays the piper names the tune. If Christian parents want more 'public' in the schools they must vote government out of them. Otherwise they will remain indoctrination outposts for all things secular. And do we really want our 6 year olds in an atmosphere of such intolerance that their belief in God is constantly ridiculed. Would you allow your 8 year old to go on a mission trip for 6 hours a day?

Run...don't walk...get out of public schools as fast as you can. I recommend this for the same reason I wouldn't take my sons to a strip club.

My second son wasn't a great student, but dedicated to learning. Played football, and was well liked by a variety of students. He is a good looking guy and always had a steady stream of girls vying for his attention. He was/is also a very strong Christian...

All this said... He did influence a few of his contemporaries to explore Christianity, however almost without exception the kids he influenced were kids that he socialized with, from the neighborhood. A strong relationship was formed. This experience hasn't changed during his enlistment in the armed forces.

My point is that the educational world is getting increasingly hostile to our point of view. Look at the stats on how many of our young people walk away from church during the college years.

My first priority is to enable FULLY, and educate FULLY, and protect until the armor is in place, the ones that are in front of me. Then they will be ready to influence those they meet.

I have two boys in the service. I wouldn't send them into a minefield without armor, tools, or training.

If we protect our children and at the same time build educational institutions that are envied by the world, it will come to us, and be influenced.

I am a Christian teacher in a public high school, and I am a parent of two young children. Five years ago I would have argued vehemently against taking our Christian children out of public schools. I have since changed my mind and my husband and I have decided that our children will not go to public schools.

The problem with being a Christian in a public high school is that that I am not allowed to talk about it. The law, and the powers that be, will not allow me to. Homosexuality is rampant in our public high schools, and, frankly, the homosexual students have more rights than our children do. I am not allowed to tell them that their life style choice is wrong anymore than I can tell them about our loving Saviour who very much wants to establish a relationship with them. If I see two girls kissing in the hallways, and I do- often, I can be accused of bullying them if I say something- but if I see a guy and a girl kissing in the hallway, I can almost be written up if I don't say something to them.

What we need to do is stand up, once and for all, for our Christian rights. It makes no sense when non-Christians have more rights than we do simply because they are non-Christians. That's one we need to take to Washington.

I don't mind the thought of sending our Christian kids to school to counter the secular approach to life, but I do mind the thought of sending the child who I'm not sure is yet a Christian, and who I feel is ill-equipped to stand against the onslaught of ungodly teaching...we are supposed to stand with all the armor of God, stand firm with our helmet of salvation and all the rest...how can a young child stand, without that armor firmly in place, against not only those in authority over him in school but also the undisciplined peers who would attack the beliefs he was raised with? I find this even on our street, that my son was called racist, ganged up on by public school kids, and physically threatened and attacked because he dared to say that Christ is superior to the gods of other cultures.
As he gets older, and surer of his faith, I am less alarmed at the thought of sending him to the public schools...if I feel he will stand firm. It's definitely a hostile environment and with time, my prayer is that he will be well-equipped to do so. I can't expect that to be the case in grade school.
For that matter, read Deuteronomy 6. It distinctly exhorts the parents to teach their children their beliefs. Many Christian families who send their children to school lack sufficient interactive relationship, time, and/or energy to really do this thoroughly.

I am surprised by the posts that contain biting sarcasm and feel like many of the responses were emotion-based, knee-jerk reactions rather than well thought out and reasoned answers. It's too bad. This is a VERY important topic and one that deserves reflection and discussion, not just condemnation. I urge all of you to spend some time with the question, pray about it, and allow God to direct your paths accordingly.

As a Pastor,High School Teacher and Father of two daughters who attended public school.
I have a perspective much different than the author.
1)The church has been in the process of withdrawning its influence from the public school for 30 years. The foolish leadership of Men like James Dobson creating a spirit of fear amount believers.
2) The church I believe needs to see the Public School as the most important mission field in our country.
3) The church in my Bible is never about withdrawal from any area that the gospel can be shared.
4) The church needs to understand is mission is to raise children that are strong spiritually and leaders. My children are proof that you must be both.
5) The church needs to relook at it use of resources and the bible.
Are we building bridges to the unsaved or building walls to keep people out?

As a Pastor,High School Teacher and Father of two daughters who attended public school.
I have a perspective much different than the author.
1)The church has been in the process of withdrawning its influence from the public school for 30 years. The foolish leadership of Men like James Dobson creating a spirit of fear amount believers.
2) The church I believe needs to see the Public School as the most important mission field in our country.
3) The church in my Bible is never about withdrawal from any area that the gospel can be shared.
4) The church needs to understand is mission is to raise children that are strong spiritually and leaders. My children are proof that you must be both.
5) The church needs to relook at it use of resources and the bible.
Are we building bridges to the unsaved or building walls to keep people out?

I agree with Mr. Mohler's remarks. Our children are not ready to be salt and light in a decaying world. They must be trained up in the way they should go to then step into the world better prepared to make a difference. When the public school has your child for 8 hours a day you can not possibly conteract all the wrong teaching they are receiving.

I also believe that ADULTS should not abandon the public school system. Yes, get in there and make a difference. Get involved in your community politics, VOTE! But above all pray for the public schools. Yes, get your church involved in doing special projects at your local school.

We hold church services in our local school. This past summer we repainted their bathrooms and transformed the boys bathroom into a sports field and the girls into a beach with cabanas. The school was so impressed. We have been asked if we want to do more of those kinds of projects.

Should churches provide alternative schooling options? If they can. If they can't they should at least provide support. Churches should never dictate how it's families should live their lives. That's the work of the Holy Spirit.

We can be in this world but not of it. We do not have to be a part of the decay to shine a light. Lot and his family found that out.

I homeschooled my children for 25 years and would not do it any other way. It was what God called me to do. We got involved in our community in ways public school children can't do because they are tied to the classroom. I always took my kids with me to vote. We discussed every local, state, and national election and we all made wise choices as to who to vote for.

There are now four more Godly men and women who are being salt and light in their little corner of the world. I am now pastoring a small church plant and continue to teach my congregation to get involved by first, praying, the putting feet to their prayers. I guest teach in the public school system. I also support other homeschool families by teaching their kids what they don't have the skills to do. I am making a difference in a decaying world.

It doesn't have to be either/or. Each person should seek God's will for their life and their families lives. However, leaving our children in public schools will not turn out for the better. The saying is not "one good apple makes the whole bunch good."

Children need nurturing and training to fight spiritual battles. You can't do that if they are in public schools today.

I am a pastor who intentionally let his kids (i have four) go to public school. My kids have been missionaries there and have brought kids to our home who really needed to see what a Christian family looked like. These kids have come to church, they have come to the faith and they are reaching out to others. This would not have happened if I withdrew them into a Christian sub-culture. I think that Christian parents have to have confidence in their ability to address the issues kids encounter in school and deal with them, teaching their kids to have the mind of Christ. It's messy there in pub school, but oh so rewarding!

When did we change from sheep into lemmings?

I am all for raising your own kids in whatever way you see fit, but there is a line where "protection" from the "evil" world becomes silly -- this coming from one of the "fringe" (my pastor's definition) GenXers that sits and watches all the Boomers raising these GenY kids, trying to keep these these fragile souls from anything that could hurt them. (They grow up quicker than you think, mom and dad, and learn more than you know. We sure did.)

I've been raised in church all my life and this is not the way to do it.

There was a lovely sect that was around the time of Christ who did the same thing, who retreated from society, and didn't participate with anything they considered unholy. They aren't around anymore.

"Go therefore INTO the world..."

i think you have to take age into consideration. I'm not sure if i was at 7 would i have any clue what homosexuality was, but thats no reason to let your kids in on that. Im not a parent so im not a good judge of what a kid can handle especially the talk about sex at the age of 7. the whole idea of abandoning public school for your own sake i really is the road most traveled. i think God asks for so much more of us in this journey. thats where i conflict with a childs age. when is the age appropriate.

i think you have to take age into consideration. I'm not sure if i was at 7 would i have any clue what homosexuality was, but thats no reason to let your kids in on that. Im not a parent so im not a good judge of what a kid can handle especially the talk about sex at the age of 7. the whole idea of abandoning public school for your own sake i really is the road most traveled. i think God asks for so much more of us in this journey. thats where i conflict with a childs age. when is the age appropriate.

As a pastor we were given opportunity by a congregation we served to send our children to a Christian school. We chose to keep them in the public school system. The older son played football, wrestled, was in speech and debate, and school musicals. He frequently had many of the school athletes in our home and they knew where he stood as a Christian. Today he's a gifted pastor and now a church planter. Our daughter excelled in speech and debate, was a cheerleader and had leads in school musicals. She frequently had many of the cheerleaders in our home -- her school friends knew where she stood as a Christian. She eventually married a pastor who is now a guidance counselor in a public school where his influence is much needed. Our younger son was in an urban school setting and was always a gifted musician. He chose to play Christian themes in his music. School chums knew where he stood as a Christian. His Christian support group was a Youth for Christ program. When his school mates asked that he be allowed to play a very popular Christian song at graduation at his public high school, the principal asked that he remove lyrics with "God-references", he refused, and was not permitted to play the song without them. His school friends really knew were he stood. Today he is a musician with one of America's leading contemporary artists, and travels the world playing in the band, sometimes before audiences of up to 100,000. May wife and I think back and wonder how much Christian influence in the public schools they attended would have been lost had our three children gone to a "Christian school". Bob

This is a hard subject. I am a mom of four boys and a wife of a full time youth pastor. We are around kids all the time.

There are no easy answers. The govt. in America is more and more taking away parental rights when it comes to even the basics of knowing what is taught in the classroom. We live in an age when morals are being taught in the classroom and not in the home. We live in a time when academics are not what they used to be.

But there is nothing new under the sun. Evil has existed since the fall. The answer is not a blanket one. The answer as Christians is what is it that God is calling you and your church to do. Every school and town is different. Some may be called to homeschool. Some may be called to teach. Some may be called to have your kids in public school. Some church may be called to start a school. The issue is are we seeking the face of God and obeying that which he has called us to do, even if, like Noah, the project is unpopular. We can not assume that just because the church in the next town over is doing "it" that we should or should not be.

I live in a very unchurched region of America. But regardless of where we live we need to be loving the lost and obeying Christ. We are called to be salt and light as Christians. Life is not easy. Seek Gods face on this issue and be faithful to walk in obedience.

If Christian parents had any power to direct the learning that goes on in public schools there may be some reason for their children to attend. But that will never be true as long as secular government is in charge. We must understand that the schools are not public but government schools. Because whoever pays the piper names the tune. If Christian parents want more 'public' in the schools they must vote government out of them. Otherwise they will remain indoctrination outposts for all things secular. And do we really want our 6 year olds in an atmosphere of such intolerance that their belief in God is constantly ridiculed. Would you allow your 8 year old to go on a mission trip for 6 hours a day?

"Let the children come unto me" Jesus said in a rebuke to his disciples for hindering the children in their attempt to reach Jesus and be blessed by Him. The words we speak, actions we take and influences that we place upon our children had better not be a stumbling block in their way to fully reaching Christ.
It is our job to protect our children and raise them up in the way of the Lord. Notice I used the word 'protect' and not shelter.

When my children attended the Public School, I spent alot of time trying to undo what had been taught to them that was contrary to God's Word...alot of time wading through conflicting world views...alot of time defending our faith...alot of time kicking myself for not having been able to protect their spirits.

Now that they are at a Christian School, they are taught a Godly world view approach to all things, and what is being taught in our home is supported and encouraged, not torn down at every turn. We still have plenty of opportunities to discuss things in our culture and many, many opportunities to be involved in our community and to be salt and light.
We have in no way retreated, or isolated ourselves, but our kidz are better grounded and more prepared to 'go and make disciples' for having been in a good Christian school.
Guess what, they even practise this on a daily basis AT school, as many who call themselves Christians are not truly Christ Followers.

When we expect the government to reflect our values as Christians, we're expecting too much. It's OUR job as Christians to preach and teach Christian values. It's not the government's job. If anything, our government was founded upon freedom of religion, meaning that all views could (or even should) be represented.

As parents, we can't shield our children from these other world views. We simply have to openly discuss these views with our children. We have to take upon ourselves the responsibility to explain and biblically interpret what's being taught -- whether it be evolution, abortion, or homosexuality. Let's not expect too much of public schools and get busy doing our job.

wow... great discussion! Here's my two cents, which echo lots of things above.

While I think Christian Schools, charter schools and home schooling are all good answers when public schools are failing like in my city, a mass Christian exodus from public schools starts us down a path that leads some scary places. I ate at a restaurant last week and I'm pretty sure the waiter was gay... by this logic Christians should start their own restaurants and pull out of secular eateries. While we're at it, we should probably segregate our bookstores, our music, our media... how about our politicians! Maybe if we get enough senators in our corner we can succeed,
If we seclude our Christian kids like this, aren't we just saying that it's ok for non-Christians to have bad education?
secede from the union, start our own country, kick out all the heathens. Sounds like the kingdom of God to me, right? scary places!

This is not about segregation. This is about equipping Christian soldiers. Young children are to be taught the truth and given a sufficient foundation in truth. The truth does not just entail memorizing scripture and knowing the gospel. Teaching the truth entails dispelling the lies. As children are taught what the world teaches is lies, they are given the truth to counter it. This gives them a sword to fight with as they enter the world. They are able to learn proper discerment and can stand up to the persecution. When the children have matured and are suffiently grounded in their faith they can make the proper choices and stand up for Christian rights in the world. Exposing young children to the lies before they are able to mature and understand them is not giving them the weapons they need to fight the spiritual warfare that is to come.
We are not supposed to let the world raise our children for us. Being educated does not get us into heaven and it also leads us away from the truth. Evolution, incorrect moral issues, erasing and rewriting history, and dumbing down future generations is not my idea of proper education. A Biblical worldview is developed over time and study, not just on Sundays. Parents cannot be expected to explain everything their children are exposed to in schools. There is not enough time in the day to do that. It must be a lifestyle.
It is not a fear factor, it is taking back our future generation for God. These children will be put into the world ready to make the necessary changes. We are not to change the schools, which are a tool to develop robots for our government and the world, but we are to influence independent thinkers to change the world.
Please do not forget what the world is to become as the end times arrive. We are fighting a spirtual battle for the minds of our children. Stop being self-serving and start fighting the war.

Sandra Wrote: "When my children attended the Public School, I spent alot of time trying to undo what had been taught to them that was contrary to God's Word...alot of time wading through conflicting world views...alot of time defending our faith..."

Good! I'm glad you did! That is awesome training for being world-changing missionaries. That's what my parents did with me and my sisters when we were the only Christian-raised kids in our whole school and now we are all married to people we met on missions trips, all making a difference in the world. I know it seems easier to sidestep out of the battle, but we miss an amazing opportunity if we do so. Why do we think the most God-honouring thing is to keep a child away from (say) Harry Potter, rather than train them to have an intelligent biblically-informed conversation about it?

We homeschool.

We also read Harry Potter.

Our exodus from school really came from a repulsion of mediocrity. Public school is a modern construct for the manufacturing age. For the most part it leaves you behind when you struggle in one subject, holds you back when you excel in another, and teaches you to obey authority and punch the clock when the bell rings.

In the course of deconstructing church, how can you avoid deconstructing other institutions that are, shall we say, 'more institutional'?

I initially struggled with this impulse, because I myself had a great education in public school and viewed it as a mission. But I look around at my peers and those younger than me and I realize that I was an exception...the kid who learns by lecture and kicks ass on tests.

I want my kids to learn how to rock on the guitar, how to ride a horse, how to read Darwin and how to start their own business. Not how to show up, shut up, and make a buck.

Interesting point, Joey, but would you agree that you rationale for homeschooling is different than that of both Al Mohler and many of the other posters on this blog?

I've been discussing this very issue on my blog: http://www.offensivechristians.com/blog

Many folks think Al Mohler is wrong in his plan to leave public schools. By what basis do they form this position? More importantly if they are Christians, by what biblical basis to they assert that it is acceptable to send Christian children to a system devoted to humanism and the denial of the existence of God? Are theynaware of the NEA’s positions as they relate to our God? Please note that I am not suggesting that all people in the public education system are umanist/atheist; I’m certain however, that there is an institutional bias against supernaturalism and the God of creation in general.

If we can establish the bent of the organization is anti-God, we should then search scripture to find examples of when God’s people willingly chose to have their children educated by those who do not worship God. I couldn’t find one.

We are always one generation away from a completely pagan culture. With the hours a week spent in the humanist indoctrination machines and the anti-God messages spewing forth from our media, is it any wonder that Mohler suggests Christians follow the biblical model and educate their children?

You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. - Deuteronomy 6:7

You shall teach… I understand many Christians have made the other choices - But at what risk and under what biblical guidance? I don’t claim to know enough to exegete scripture perfectly. If anyone have the time, I’d like to understand the biblical justification for this position more clearly.

I like Al Mohler. A lot actually. But I could not disagree with him more here. With all the discussion about him being nominated as the president of the SBC, this could be a strong deal breaker. How do we advance the kingdom while in retreat?

As a British Pastor may I offer some practical experience of the Church Being Salt and Light in the Public School (Here the State School System)? As Christians we need to be at the heart of things as part of our response to the Great Commission

I would strongly argue against withdrawing our young people from such schools. They will have to live in the wider world at some stage and the sooner that they are supported in living out nad witnessing their faith in a real environment the better and stronger they will be .

Within my own ministry I regularly visit all 5 schools in my area covering all ages from 4 to 18. I Chat with the Principals about their work and their issues, I linger in the Staff Rooms and offer a friendly Christian Face to other staff and pastoral support when required.
I offer support in religious Education Lessons from a Christain perspective and work with a team of young people teaching Religious Education Classes for 11-18 year olds- as a Christian, willing to put the gospel view and debate it with students ( today I taught 2 classes of 12 year olds on the Christian understanding of the Cross)
The Church Kids love seeing me in their school and know I understand their world and experiences. The Non Church Kids now are comfortable in talking to me in the street.

As a church we have Education Sunday inviting the Primary Schools (4-11s) to work on themes and present them in a Special Service. We host Carol Services for the High School and Support the Christain Union in our Local University

We encourage church members to be school Governors ( Board Members) and we prayerfuly support those who work in Education any capacity

Please stay in there! The Kids need it, the schools value it and Jesus demands it!

Offensive Christian wrote: "by what biblical basis to they assert that it is acceptable to send Christian children to a system devoted to humanism and the denial of the existence of God"

Have you spent much time in public schools? Are you friends with many public school teachers?

I'm surprised that this issue of leaving the public school sytem is seen as 'fearful' Christians withdrawing from the big, bad world.

Homeschoolers are a very diverse lot. In our charter school co-op we have had athiests, pagans, buddhists, christian scientists, mormons, and yes, Christians. The homeschool movement is full of people looking for a different way of life than that lived by the main stream media clones.

Somehow many Christians,(my previous pastor included) have it in their head that the only people who homeschool are right wing Christians. Not obviously thinking, sophisticated, mentally healthy Christians. This strikes me as very narrow-minded.

We homeschool not in order to withdraw from the world, but in order to help our children become more competent adults that can sucessfully engage the world as adults.

Many of us who want a more intellectually challenging education, not the conveyor belt education offered by the government system, cannot afford the private schools that would provide the type of education we are looking for, and homeschooling is our only option.

If the church could reach out in a missionary effort and offer superior educational opportunities to not only their own, but the whole community, maybe that might be a better option than trying to have children be missionaries all day long while being given a mediocre education.

Let's not forget that the public school system is a system in which children are now being tested for correct attitudes, not knowledge, wisdom, or virtue. I will not sacrafice my children on the "altar of missionary work". We will engage the culture in various venues (soccer, ballet, volunteer work in the community, etc...), but that is mostly my responsibility, not my childrens.

Interesting point, Aretemom, but would you agree that you rationale for homeschooling is different than that of both Al Mohler and many of the other posters on this blog?

Luke,

I think Joey and I both represent a fair sized portion of the homeschool movement. There are Christians who want to run away from the world in the homeschooling movement because there are Christians who want to run away from the world in the churches. I don't think this combox is really a fair representation of homeschoolers.

Eventhough it might be tempting, I'm not going to say that all pro-public school Christians are pop-culture wannabes who happen to love Jesus either. That seems to be the tactic that many pro-public schoolers posters have taken - "all homeschoolers are afraid of the world", as if we stay home all day, afraid that the big bad world might influence us for evil, when in real life we're out in the community consistently dealing with people of various ages and faiths.

There might be some homeschoolers who are trying to hide from the world, but that is like saying that all public schoolers are in love with the world - it's just not so.

There are actually many issues that are being lumped into this one conversation. This makes it hard to really address all the issues that should be discussed regarding whether or not Christians should leave he public school system. To name just a few:

1. Distinguishing between adult and child missionary responsibility.

2. Quality of education and educational theory of various educational institutions.

3. The difference between being in the world and being of the world.

4. Parental rights in choosing their own children's education.

5. How we judge fellow Christians because of the educational choices they make.

6. To what degree should children be sheltered - if at all.

7. Can/should the church offer private school as a missionary effort to the whole community? Many so-called private Christian schools end up as dumping grounds for those who have no place else to turn. Can you reach out to the community and at the same time offer exceptional education?

Wow, there's a lot of assumption that we can undo at home what the teacher says in class. As the mom of a child who insisted that 2 + 3 was 6 because "my teacher said so" (which, btw, I'm sure she didn't), I think a teacher's words have much more authority in a child's life than some are giving credit. There's also an assumption that a child will inform you of what is being read in class. I found out *after* the fact that my first grader was terrified by a book that the teacher had been reading for several days to the class.
Yes, in theory at least, as parents we should be able to solve these problems by dealing directly with the teacher, principal, and/or school board. In practice, however, there can be an attitude that the educators know best how to educate a child and parents need to simply accept what is being taught. It's not just one issue but a plethora of issues that lead parents to remove their kids from the public school system. I believe that to be a legitimate parental choice which should be made after much prayer. So, I believe, should the choice to place a child in the public school system be made after much prayer. Perhaps that is the big issue -- that the public school system is the default and only after parents have negative experiences do they ask God where HE would have these children learn.