What exactly delineates secular and "Christian"? Is it the faith of the song writer, the label the song is recorded under, radio stations that play the song, or the number of times that Jesus is mentioned in the song?

If it is the faith of the author, I have a hard time knowing that every "Christian" song is written by a follower of Christ and that every secular song is written by a "non-believer".

As for label and radio stations, I've know some great Christian artist who have had songs recorded on labels and played on stations that traditionally will record and play stuff that I wouldn't play in church. I don't know that that's a good measure.

If it is the explicit mention of the Lord, then the Book of Esther now become secular along with some hymns and common choruses.

I guess I struggle with this issue. What is secular? What is sacred?

This post hearkens to a constant question of controversy in CCM radio - is it ethical to play artists that "say" they are Christian on stations advocating Christian music?

I mean you hear more music from past American Idols on CCM radio than SCC and Smitty put together. Why? Oh yeah... money. It's ratings and although Third Day is probably the BEST band going today (IMHO), they are not going to pull in the cheddar like some cheesy song from Daughtry.

So play the Top 40 in the pulpit if you like, I will stick my hands up to a song I KNOW glorifies God, not maybe hits it in the same ballpark.

BTW, Ur. You have given me a great tangent for a post I have been meaning to scribe. Feel free to "watch" The Writing on the Wall as well. Love the blog, Ur. Keep up the faith!

I quite agree. We occasionally work a secular song into the flow of worship, but it must have a genuinely spiritual overtone or emphasis. In addition, we tend to use video during the song to reinforce the spiritual application.

A few months ago we used the old Bryan Adams song, "I Do it For You," (from the Robin Hood movie). We showed a series of scenes from The passion of the Christ. It was very moving ... very powerful.

But we still had a team member who refused to participate in playing a "secular" song in church. I think the key is that you find a balance, make a good application, and don't play something just to "shock" or to be 'cool."

"A secular song in church is so attractive, then, because every attendee is likely to be familiar with it and comfortable listening to its truth..."

Thats very open minded of Mr. Rick Muchow, but just out of curiosity...and with as much sincerity as I can muster, I ask with all seriousness...really, secular music, and to what purpose, and what kind of "secular song" do you allow in your church?

maybe i'm just a jaded, frustrated rockstar wannabe, but my view is that the secular music that appeals to large cross sections of people, and particular types of CCM which appeal to a comparable set, does so because it's driven by formula in style, arrangements, subjects, and lyrical content.

we sing 'original' worship songs in our church, but the songs are far from 'original'. if i was God, i'd be saying, "Listen! No more songs with 'you are worthy' or 'bless this and bless that' or 'holy names'! I've heard them all before! Go listen to some Harry Chapin - tell me some stories!"

CCM may have been something 'unique' thirty years ago (ken medema, andrea crouch, dallas holm, etc.). but even then the desire was to 'crossover' into the pop charts. probably nothing wrong with that in the end, if that's the goal you start out with.

this is yet another topic where one church grew dramatically doing something somewhat out of the ordinary, and now they want to humbly say how everyone else should be doing the same if they want to be 'successful' like them.

in other words, trying to make the church follow a formula, too.

looks like they 'succeeded'...

There's a separation between sacred and secular? News to me.

Many of our hymns were written to bar tunes. And further what constitutes a song not being secular? Do you have to say "me," "Jesus," and "I" a certain number of times? Or is it because a "Christian label" records the artist and they have a CCLI number?

This is all so silly.

Lets cut to the chase with the words 'secular and church music/songs' which i believe is not the issue here. I just get sort of tired with the use of these words. To me, part of the reason 'christian songs' have so little impact is because they are one dimentional. man to God. I am not against this but it is true. There is little creativity, no baring of the soul, in terms of the lyrics. Just look at the psalms, read the whole bible for that matter. In terms of song use, we have to exert wisdom. I mean we should know what or which part of the song we want to use.

Honestly, i like the short 'article' and i do agree with it. But people have their own preferences and that is not a problem. Only unless christians learn to write honest moving and challenging songs, i think we still need to us the whole arsenal of song at our desposal to convey the message.

I don't object to secular music being used as a teaching tool to illustrate a cultural mindset or to use as a springboard into a bible study. I liken it to Paul's quoting of secular poetry in his sermon at the Areopagus in Acts 17.

We do need to be careful; music is a powerful medium. Personally, I think some churches feature inappropriate music during their "worship" time. Call me a prude, but songs like Friends In Low Places and Footloose don't belong in a worship service.

BTW, there are also "Hillsong-approved" worship songs that are just plain wrong, biblically speaking.

I cringe whenever I hear a congregation singing "I went to the enemy's camp, and I took back what he stole from me".

Blech!

at the church i use to attend, the youth pastor there told all of us not to listen to secular music because those people were ministering and creating out of an 'un-saved soul'. even as a youngster that never really made any sense to me.

i understood the idea that some music is downright disrespectful to God in it's lyrical content and lifestyle of the particular artist. but to paint it all with such a wide stroke seemed wrong. not to mention the fact that all sorts of people at that church (including the youth pastor) watched lot's of tv shows created by people with "un-saved souls" and movies and read books ect...the argument just seemed to break down.

i think as leaders we have to be ever so careful what we deem secular or sacred. it can be a wishy washy line. think of all those parents who bought the CCM approved "Katy Hudson" album in 2001 to only strip them of it when she released her song "i kissed a girl" under the new name "Katy Perry"?

music is one of the most beautiful ways we can express our love for God. but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to songs and artists that aren't affiliated with Christianity. you might be surprised what gems and treasures you can find if you look beyond the CCM approved stamp.

Jonathan makes a good observation on the one-dimensional quality of "Christian" songs. When, as an older teen, I went through a phase of eschewing all secular music (necessary, at the time, due to my lack of wisdom in choosing non-destructive entertainment), I became quickly overwhelmed by the fact that so very few songs across a wide range of genres - rock, ska, swing, I listened to all except pop - were about anything other than the artist's relationship with God. It is good to use poetry to express one's relationship with God - but there are many more relationship's present in the world of man. Man's relationship to other Men, the relationships between lovers and spouses - and forget relationships, let's talk about plain old issues and observations that so many artists make and which are essential to express from a Christian viewpoint.

Four of my favourite CDs are "One Plus One Is One" by Badly Drawn Boy, "Reconstruction Site" by The Weakerthans, "Word Gets Around", by the Stereophonics, and Bruce Cockburn's "You've Never Seen Everything". The albums deal with, respectively, the trials and joys of married life, the willful and active recovery from a cycle of depression and self-destruction, the destructive nature of gossip, and a combination of emotional needs, expressions of desire, delight, despair, anger, and hope, thirst for social justice/ a heart for the poor, reflections on one's lifetime, and much more. In short, these four non-Christian artists speak truth about essential elements of the human condition that are simply not present in 99% of the Christian songs I've heard since my conversion 13 years ago. Do they speak the truth about everything? No. Does that make their true statements less true? No.

I can't help but be peevedly amazed by how many people are quick to reject all non-Christian musicians as evil or unwholesome or otherwise worthless and inappropriate, when, after a summer blockbuster, you can hardly go to a Christian bookstore or a church that doesn't enthuse about "Finding God In " or "Lessons From ".
A little confusing, no? Why is the church so eager to find Christian messages in film but not music?

"this is yet another topic where one church grew dramatically doing something somewhat out of the ordinary, and now they want to humbly say how everyone else should be doing the same if they want to be 'successful' like them.
in other words, trying to make the church follow a formula, too."

Ouch!
I have to say Mike, you got me there...hmm, I'm going to have to rethink some things, but I'm also of the mind that there are a plethora of secular songs which so don't belong in the church.
Songs like early 2000's "gangsta" rap which still, for some ungodly reason, is still popular with todays youth.
Then there is the songs that I see daughters all bouncing around, or rocking out too which either talk about bedding any and every guy who flashes his "bling" to the ever ubiquitous "he left me, the dog, I hate him, I'm going to sleep with his friends to show him, boo-hoo for me!"
Do young people ever listen to the words to these songs?
I mean seriously, these songs border on encouraging self-destruction, if not out right social anarchy.

I guess for me, amazing grace still holds me in thrall...I suppose it's because the words resonate with me...it's the words mike, the words, not the notes, but the words that sink into my mind that make the intellectual connection with the divine. The notes of music are just the bucket in which the words are carried in.

Words have power, meaning and depth, and frame our reality into a coherent image that defines our understanding of ourselves and our enviroment. Music, therefore, focuses that power, and infuses it for rememberance.

sheerakahn, you have said it all . . . amazing grace. . . "when we've been there ten thousand years... we've no less days to SING GOD'S Praise than when we first begun."

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the movie Sister Act , which took Motown classics and arranged them for female chorus in a way that made them undeniably Christian. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of secular songs that wouldn't take a lot of "fixing" to become appropriate for church. If the end is glorifying God, use whatever means work. (As when Paul used "all means" to attract "all people" to the message.)

I'll never forget the Pastor's conference I was attending that, after three days of "worship music" mixed in a secular song to the thunderous applause (and dancing *gasp*) of 7000 pastors! In that moment, I found myself wondering, "What was missing in all these worship songs, that tapped--instantly--such a primal worship urge in all these pastors?!?!!" Now, surely some of it was blowing off steam, but still..."hands in the air, wave 'em like you just don't care" worship that I had yet to experience.

I went through my phase of removing all "secular" music, but now, honestly, I find more "where people are" Truth in popular music (and have repeatedly re-routed that undue praise to the One whom it's due) than in any SCC music (G_d help me for figuring out that acronym!! Forgive my sin!).

Sacred vs. Secular...are we still here? Great article. Thanks for the inspiration!

There are churches that do services to the music of U2. There are so called "secular" artists that easily could be interpreted as songs of faith.

There are those "Christian" artists who sing songs that never mention God because they want to increase those chances of being on mainstream radio. A friend of mine calls thoses songs "Esther Songs", because the book of Esther never mentions God, and yet it is in the Bible.

Some of my favourite 'secular' Christian songs:
"Jesus Walking on the Water" and
"Out the Window" by the Violent Femmes (lead singer Gordon Gano is a Christian, but you wouldn't know it by the other songs!)
"All the Days of My Life" by David Bowie
"Hope of Deliverance" by Paul McCartney

What are everyone else's favourite "Christian" secular songs?

I like U2 as well, and it wasn't till a friend of mine actually walked me through the lyrics that I begin to see what the group was doing...very clever those four, very clever.

There seems to be less and less regard for what represents the reverence and holiness unto God and more and more of our desire as people to REMOVE GOD and to ADD something else we feel will draw people in. God's word, His love, mercy and grace is enough and has been enough for 42 years to draw me in through Christ. While I like Classical music and saxaphone and live piano, NOTHING replaces the heart of songs that speak of the BLOOD OF JESUS, the love of God, worshipping Him in the beauty of His holiness, etc. Songs such as Just as I am without one plea, Amazing Grace and a few of the contemporary chrisitan songs. Why is it that Christians want to remove Christ in order to APPEAL to the public? Don't you realize that CHRIST appeals to the public if we just show ourselves to be faithful in baring witness in our walk before others? If we as Christians remove Him from everything then how can we lead others to Him?

In the end we will all face God and give an account of what we've said and done. May His mercy be upon us all when we stand before Him and say I had to remove you in order for others to hear the music and be moved by it.

Heard it before, and where exactly is the secular line. I have to agree with some of the comments. I bought my first "Third Day" album when I began my walk witH Christ, it moved me to tears of joy. Now I also listen to other genre's, Gospel Hip Hop that praises the Lord yet many in teh church have told me that's trash. But it dives into topics not addressed by many- life experiences, drugs, sexuality, crime, loss of spirit, etc. I don't defend what I listen to anymore. I LOVE music, from the salsa of my childhood, from classical to progressive/gospel Hip Hop to House. If you feel it in your soul, who cares what others think, they're simply not on the same "level" as you are as a listener. My actions speak for my faith, it's the most powerful example I have as a Christian. GB

I believe that the reason it is so hard to define and clarify this issue is because songs cannot be "Christian" (despite labels). Only a person can be Christian. Only a person can follow Christ's teachings, accurately reflect Christ the Person, and communicate with Him in this life and the next.

One of the wisest things I ever heard is that a fragment of Truth can be found in any work of man, even if that truth is not always beautiful.

Just food for thought, ramblings on an interesting post in the middle of the night.

WEll there are alot of ways that you can respond to this, and alot of questions to go along with this. but i take the side that is for secular music.

Rich Muchow made a great piont in that people are naturally atracted to secular music, and i often say that in defence of it too. Not everybody can relate with "amazing grace", or "praise you in this storm", but how many people can feel and relate to love, relationships, anger, heart break, and good times with friends? most every one. And if we as christians want to reach out and catch the secular woulds eye, we had better speak thier language.

now there is always the piont of how far is too far when it comes to music. But there i truth in the topics i named above, what people want to hear, and just because jesus, or grace, or the cross are'nt mentioned in the song does not make it unholy!

Im not saying that we replace God and hymes completely, but at my church we hav a mix of music , both hymes and a band playing, and it works out great but as long as the song is not blatently sinful and unholy, and holds Some of Gods truth in it and helps the worship, i think it is good.