This is exactly how I would define missional as Mike is describing it.

As I explained in posting comments on the earlier post, the sub-title that was added when Out Of Ur posted the article changed the focus to small church and large church comparisons which wasn't the point. It was more about asking about attractional and missional fruit, not focusing on the size. As I shared, the article was shortened due to length so some of that didn't come out either. I truly am sorry for the way some of the large vs. small church emphasis seemed to come across too- that honestly was not the intent whatsover.

But I would love to hear if what Mike is saying is true, which I 100% agree with him about the definition - so if we are missional in this way, what is the mission we are on? If we are on a mission, then how do we know we are making progress towards that mission?

They may flesh out differently like Mike is saying of course in different contexts and cultures, and therefore there is no one model. But what are our goals of being missional that we can tangibly try to see if they are happening as we are missional - even if all the churches look different?

Jesus said He came to "seek and save the lost". That is pretty clear to understand and know if that was happening or not. What would Jesus say with tangible descriptions of what a missional church's goals are, so we know if we are making headway in what the goal of our mission as a missional church is.

I would love to hear input on that based on Mike's definition, which I fully agree with.

It is quite fun thinking about this.

Dan

Finally. Thanks Mike for clearly and concisely articulating that missional is a way of "being" church. It is not some external aspect but the integrative reality.

But I wouldn't say "missional" isn't a biblical term. It means being sent out—just as the Father sent the Son, and the Son sent the apostles (apostles meaning "sent ones") to go into all the world and teach, usually through demonstration, everything Jesus taught; and how Spirit was sent to empower them to do it. Spread the Kingdom is the mission. How we implement it depends on the individual, how the Spirit uniquely empowers individuals, the needs of the community they minister in, and whether (for once) they'll obey Jesus and do it instead of putting all the emphasis on "wave your hands in the air and party like you just don't care."

Michael's otherwise totally right: The Church needs to be centered around the mission rather than itself.

Good follow-up, thanks!

Followed the conversation over at Brother Maynard's, Dan...sorry about the confusion over the previous article.

Listening the the entire video of Mike's talk was some of the best time I ever spent. Perhaps someone might put that link here for those who want the rest of the story.

He forgot the "make disciples" part. ;-P

It is a new word and so it seems to be a new idea. The point I hear is that it is not a new idea. So the choosing of a new word "missional" is fundamentally confusing simply because it is new. I would argue that at this point it is an overused buzzword that is in need of redefinition, and so we are back to square one.

Well said Mike. It is refreshing to hear such comments and sound explanation. I agree 100% about being "Missional" and I'm sad how many churches I have contact with are not focussed in terms of how Mike describes Missional. When I read Acts recently I saw again just how missional focussed the early church seemed to be. I am a "missionary" myself ("one sent out") but I do think this is something the church as a whole needs to more fully grasp.
http://otiumsanctum.com

As Dan pointed out, the definition of "missional" is incomplete without a definition for the mission. Is it the Great Commission? How is it different from evangelism? Is it simply evangelism + discipleship?

I think this is one of the best conversations Out of Ur has had and I thank them for bringing all of these different perspectives to the conversation. I have watched this video of Frost a number of times and think it incredibly important in defining what missional is all about. I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth but I think one answer to the question posed by Dan about what mission we are on would be some combination of the Great Commission (making disciples) and what some have called his "manifesto" in Luke, chapter 4. Furthermore, if we are following the missio dei, it seems to me that looking at God's activity throughout the Scriptures and patterning our lives after the same is also part of the answer. Again, context will determine to some extent what this looks like.

BTW, thanks to Dan for clarifying his position. I was a bit surprised when I read the original post because of how different it sounded in tone from what I have read of Dan in the past. Thanks Dan!

The only other thing I would add to this is discussion is the reality that this whole movement is still in its infancy and it is important to not view "Missional" as some kind of new model for church growth but rather a completely new way of "being church" which means a lot still has to get worked out in terms of methodology and the "fruit" Dan and others are looking for is probably still in its germination phase.

Peace,
Doug

I'd just like to point out that this is just a 3 min clip of an hour long talk that Mike gave, and that it takes a while to really get a feel of what he is talking about and hearing some of their "Dangerous Stories" about what incarnational mission really looks like to the Forge guys. I'd really like to see this talk he gave in 2005 on Youtube. But from what I can tell them main difference is about being Jesus amongst the people instead of atrracting the people to a building, and the main reason you can't have both is because the church becomes Christian's 3rd place and nobody has time for 4 places.

Leadership is my favorite magazine. I have learned oodles from reading it over the past 15 years. This last issue "Missional" caught my attention in a new way. Missional is nothing new. I have pastored 3 rural churches and they have all been "missional". I did not know that until I read this issue, but it made me smile to think of all the churches that are now out to duplicate what small churches have been doing forever.

In a small church, under 100, you have to believe you are a part of something much bigger than yourself. A part of a movement that is controlled by God and not by the Church or even the Denomination. If we saw ourselves as the source of our mission, it would be depressing to see how little we actually do. Instead we see the missionaries we help support who live and work in Cebu, Japan, Turkey, etc. as being somewhere we cannot physically go. We call them a part of our Church and say we are touching the world because God has asked us to stand by them. We believe we are all in it together. All of us, SaddleBack, WillowCreek, etc and us. We believe we are working together in different places, to reach different people.

The next thing we do that's "missional" is how our people serve. I am the preacher, head administrator, chairman of the elder board and when our Deacon of Fellowship resigned, I became that too. The list goes on, I take my turn mowing the grass, weeding the flower beds, sweeping the floor, no one here is above or beneath any position. We all truly are in it together.

Our church which has about 80 on a Sunday morning, has 3 people who work at the food bank, 7 who are leaders in the local 4H, a girl scout leader, a board member a the Grange, a team member on the County prayer team and probably a few I know nothing about. We see our community as the mission field God has called us to serve. If the lay people let the clergy do it all, nothing would get done. All solo pastors can do is send the people out into the world to do the mission.

In Dan Kimball's article he said, "I was on a panel with other church leaders in a large city. One missional advocate in the group stated..." Maybe instead of going to a conference or panel or joining a think tank, I challenge all you "Out of Ur guys to take a field trip. Out here in rural USA we are living the successful "missional" church.

Come check us out, you don't have to drive far, we are everywhere. Little buildings nestled in little communities, making little differences in a lot of lives.

I love you guys, thanks for all you do!