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    « Goodbye, Evangelicalism | Main | Cartoon: Love, Theologically »

    March 12, 2009

    Mark Galli Weighs in on Evangelical Demise

    Senior managing editor of our sister publication, Christianity Today, posted a response to iMonk's prophecies about the end of evangelicalism on the CT website Wednesday afternoon. Here's the first bit. You can read the rest there.

    The Internet is abuzz with the latest prognostications about "the coming evangelical collapse." This is the substance of three blog posts over at Internet Monk (a.k.a. Michael Spencer), who predicts said collapse in ten years. When his thoughts got picked up and condensed by the Christian Science Monitor and then the Drudge Report - well, you can just imagine the electronic excitement.

    The title of Spencer's posts spoils the ending; still, many of the details are interesting. I've made many of the same observations in this column. For example, Spencer writes, "Expect evangelicalism as a whole to look more and more like the pragmatic, therapeutic, church-growth-oriented megachurches that have defined success. The determination to follow in the methodological steps of numerically successful churches will be greater than ever. The result will be, in the main, a departure from doctrine to more and more emphasis on relevance, motivation and personal success." My only caveat here is to wonder if this is a future or present reality.

    Finish here.

    Posted by UrL Scaramanga on March 12, 2009



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    Comments

    “evangelicalism has mostly tied itself to the pro-life, traditional family, personal responsibility, suspicious-of-big-government-yet-patriotic part of our culture.”

    And this is the part that has undone the Evangelical movement…Dobson’s “I’m a king maker of the Republican party,” or his “I’ll take my followers and leave” comments; or the late Falwell and his “kill em all in the name of the lord” which really…that one took the cake.
    The world sees these men, and the others like Paul Weyrich who spout the “culture war” meme, and the world's judgement is laid bare…”they.are.just.like.us.” But herein lies the problem, as is mentioned in the article from CT by Mark Galli, the duality of the Evangelical crowd has lent an air of schizophrenia to an outside observer. Observe the Evangelical voices of careful reason are often torn asunder by their own. Look at what happens when anyone mention's Rick Warren, a self-identified Evangelical who, imo, has done a whole lot to dispel the notion that all Evangelicals are political, power-hungry jerks.
    He gets eaten alive in the media, and on the net, by everyone who calls themselves Christian.

    “Spencer, among others, says that such identification will lead to its collapse. Eventually, perhaps, but not until a large part of our culture rejects such themes. It's hard to imagine that happening in ten years.”

    And herein is where I partially agree with the author…ten years? Oh no, that rejection is happening now.
    The world is dismissing the Evangelicals as irrelevant due to it's similarity to the secular institutions they are familiar with, and as long as Dobson and the rest are viewed as speaking for the whole of Christianity that view will live a very. very. long. life.

    “For now they are called evangelicals, and I suspect that in one form or another, they'll be around for some time.”

    But I do agree with this, the Spirit of evangelism will be around for a very long time, but as we have come to know it in this country...I believe we are watching it in it's death throes...Let it die, so the Church that Y'shua our Lord desires can live.

    Posted by: sheerahkahn at March 12, 2009

    "And this is the part that has undone the Evangelical movement"

    So evangelicals need to be more okay with killing babies for convenience, or at least willing to accept the non-scientific line that "they are merely a parasite attached to a woman's body". So no evangelical leader should be on the radio and have a big budget.... then many more people will like evangelicals and see them as relevant. Unfortunately there is a worldview difference here. Evangelicals are not seeking to be men pleasers. They are seeking to be God pleasers. So far, those who sneer at evangelicalism are not trying to kill them. But even if that were true, it should not be troubling for an evangelical.

    If there is honest criticism of the evangelical, founded on God's Word, then my ears are open, and others will be also.

    What kind of "power hunger" is it for one to stand up for the rights of the unborn? Could it be truth hunger and justice hunger instead?

    Posted by: Tim at March 12, 2009

    "What kind of "power hunger" is it for one to stand up for the rights of the unborn?"

    The kind* that uses the rights of the unborn as a rung in the ladder for political gain?

    *Note: I point to the Republican party who had total and complete control of the US government from 2000-to-2006...and did absolutely.nothing.to.advance.the.evangelical.platform.on.abortion.

    "Could it be truth hunger and justice hunger instead?"

    Oh, I'll give you hunger alright, because that is the only excuse the evangelicals can hang their hat on for the empty results of the past...ready for this...28 years of their involvement in the political arena.

    Why do I allow the hunger part...because hunger makes sane people do stupid, crazy things that if they were in their right mind would realize politics is not a good way of accomplishing the will of G-d.

    Posted by: sheerahkahn at March 13, 2009

    Sheer
    "the Republican party who had total and comlete control of the US government..."

    I know you are aware of a number of RINO's in the Republican party, that nullified any affects of the slim majority. For you to ignore this tells me you have a bigger interest in arguing and blasting than considering all of what you can see.

    There are evangelicals who want power and popularity, and there are evangelicals who want power for principles to be applied to law. Those who want power, flow wherever the power goes regardless of principle. Those are the evangelicals who jump on the Obama bandwagon as power shifts there. Evangelicals who stick to their principles regardless of political success are the ones not hungry for power in itself. They are principle driven. They will accept political failure rather than contort their principles. To the extent that you see evanelicals slink away from their principles and get cozy with current political power, then you know they are after power divorced from principle.

    Posted by: Tim at March 16, 2009

    "Evangelicals who stick to their principles regardless of political success are the ones not hungry for power in itself. They are principle driven."

    Principles that flow from a exegesis of Mosaic and Talmudic legalism that was redefined at the cross forces the examination of what precisely do these individuals actually believe about grace, mercy, and forgiveness?
    "Oh I heard what you said, but it's your actions that tell me what's really on your mind."
    Bottom line, where is their love for G-d, for people, and his will for us as his church? Certainly, they love the unborn, that is easy to do, but what about those who are born already?
    "Conform or be cast out.
    The ladder is quite real, Tim, and the rungs being used for the ladder are very real issues as well that do need to be addressed...but, not in the way these individuals are setting about to accomplish that.
    "there is a right way, and a wrong way of doing things, and you are still dead set on doing it all wrong...when will you learn?"
    I am all to familiar with the level that these "climbers" are reaching for, and that floor they are willing to stoop so low to reach so high is not heavenly...no, it is quite worldly.
    "How many times have you heard someone say, 'oh, if only I had known beforehand!'?"
    What you see as bombastic, I see as the very draught that is drowning the American church in a hot, steaming cup of irrelvance, marginalization, and rendered quaint like the European church is today.
    That is the future of the American church, and that is where these men.../sigh...are taking us.

    "I am struck by how many times people willingly decieve themselves into believing there is no such thing as the Law of Unintended Consequences till they find themselves in the middle of the results of their actions. Only then do they become true believers."

    Posted by: sheerahkahn at March 17, 2009

    "Principles that flow from a exegesis of Mosaic and Talmudic legalism"
    This is too generalized for me to know what you mean specifically.

    "Conform or be cast out."
    I'm left guessing here also. I walked out of institutionalized faith. I take serious issue with the system, but I find little in common with your complaints and solutions.

    Caring for the unborn is not "easy to do" in this world. There is no reason to downgrade caring for the unborn to produce more caring for the born.

    Posted by: Tim at March 19, 2009

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