We need more perspective on this matter. 1 Corinthians 8 is a great place to start. We should not drink if it causes our brothers to sin; that is clear. However, it is also clear that drinking that does not cause our brothers to sin is itself not a sin.

We as Christians like to focus on drinking, since it is so prevalent in our culture. What about gluttony? That is also a sin. How many of our brothers and sisters in Christ are battling weight gain and its associated health problems? What are we as Christians doing to help address that? How many of our pastors and elders are showing leadership in this regard by maintaining a healthy level of eating and weight?

Debate on alcohol abuse and its associated problems is fine, and I like the focus on how drinking affects our spiritual lives and how we interact with God and our neighbors. So the debate is not whether to abstain or not; it is how drinking impacts our relationships with the Father and our neighbors.

Yeah, for the record I've often wondered what has caused more harm to the church in the last 20 years: social drinking, or our tacit acceptance of sexual immorality and materialism in almost every aspect of pop culture that we love. I.e., us church folks will freak out if someone had alcohol or a smoke at one of our meetings, but all the while we could be discussing the latest movies which depict all manner of immorality (even *benign* shows like Friends) and nobody has a problem with it.

Like the previous commenter said, not that a conversation about alcohol isn't needed, but I don't get why this one is elevated to the level that its at above everything else.

The Bible makes it clear that drinking alcohol in and of itself is not sinful, it's the drunkenness that is wrong.

HOWEVER, I think those of us who have no problem with alcohol need to be especially careful around those who DO have a problem with it. Christian unity is more important than our liberty to imbibe. (Rom 14:14-23)

As much as I enjoy a good beer from time to time, it would be extremely selfish for me to INSIST on drinking when those around me are troubled by it. We ought to have the same selfless attitude that Christ demonstrated for us. (Rom 15:1-3) Rather than please ourselves, our higher priority should be to build up our neighbors.

Yes, Jesus drank wine in Cana. But in His moment of sacrifice on our behalf, He had nothing but vinegar.

I'm not sure about a rum and coke but definately over a craft brewed ice cold beer!

This debate is so damn silly. It really has only been a debate amongst the Puritanical strands of Americanized, Prohibitionized Christianity. The irony being that lots of the "conservative" Christians who are so against alcohol would staunchly defend personal responsiblity when it comes to economics.

Do we talk about how Christians buying expesive cars, homes, clothes, etc can cause a neighbor to get into massive debt and follow us into the deadly sin of avarice? Is that not just as bad if not worse than drink a brew?

Well done. I like the quote from John Piper who says "Legalism is more deadly than alcoholism" in regard to this issue.

One more thought: If we cannot give up alcohol if proved better to do so for our witness and insist on it as an "entitlement" of our freedom, there is another problem--simple pride.

last question was a little strange. can we really call people to repentance while holding a rum and coke? well, can we really call people to repentance when we've just treated our spouse terribly? it's bizarre that legalism places alcohol in such high regard - often a place much higher than that of loving others, something Jesus held in a place of priority.

Sam said: "It really has only been a debate amongst the Puritanical strands of Americanized, Prohibitionized Christianity."

Why do we use "puritan" as some sort of code word for prohibitionism? Didn't the Puritans brew their own beer?

In fact, I suspect the Puritans wrestled with these sort of issues with much more wisdom and consideration than we do today...

I've always enjoyed telling the story of the time a prominent British Evangelical came over to the USA and was with a group of anti-drinking American Evangelicals. When time came to order drinks, he asked for a glass of wine sending the group into somewhat of a tizzy. He calmly looked at them and said, "I'll not have this wine, if you admit you are the weaker brethren."

Point well taken.

There is zero Biblical basis for the abstinence insisted on by some American Christian groups, in fact, it is anti-Biblical and anti-Gospel legalism.

The Puritans, by the way, absolutely did consume alcoholic beverages.

I struggle to understand why alcohol is put in a special category deserving a pledge of abstinence. Since the Fall, man is tempted to pervert and abuse every good gift of God -- drink, food, work, family, sex, nature, relationships, and on and on. So where do we draw the line on what gift requires absitence in order to avoid abuse?

I would suggest that in terms of broken communities, destroyed marriages, scarred lives, and enslaved souls, sex and money have done more damage in our culture than alcohol. Shall we abstain from sex and commerce? Or does Jesus want to redeem our use of them?

If you believe that Christ is calling you to deal with the temtpation of alcohol via total abstinence, then you'd better abstain. But the Bible also condemns binding others' consciences where the gospel does not.

I just read the article Is A Beer Just A Beer and really enjoyed it. It was well balanced and brought both sides of the issue to light. Very "newsy" I would say for this very reason. However, I was disappointed out of all the many views shared. No one brought up the passages that teach about avoiding all appearances of evil and the fact that what appears evil in one culture may not be so in another. Paul's teachings not only taught liberty but responsibility. In my own desire, I would love to sip on a long island iced tea each evening with my dinner. So why don't I? Because I have read the passage that says it's better to tie a rock around my neck and go swimming than to cause younger ones to stumble. We have to get past legalism and learn relationship. That's why people debate these "how far can I go without sinning" issues. Instead of "how far is too far?" I have to begin asking myself "how holy can I become?". Or to put it a better way, instead of asking "Is it a sin?" we should be asking "Is it wise?". This makes a great difference in life's decisions and things get a lot clearer quickly. This is what I teach my folks and I believe it is bringing God glory when applied.

There is a growing condemnation of alcohol consumption by many individual and religious organizations. Often, they embellish their tirade with cherry picked Biblical verses.
1 Corinthians6:10; 1Corinthians 5:11, 13; Ephesians 5:18; Hosea4:11; Isaiah5:11, 13; Proverbs20:1; Proverbs23:19-21; Titus2:11-12.

At the same time, it is a sad fact that alcoholism has ruined many individuals and families. Many of us are prone to overindulge in alcohol. Even the only righteous survivor after the flood, Noah, built a vineyard, and was found drunk and naked.

An ‘Alcoholic Anonymous’ survey reported the good news that out of 100 wine drinkers, only 10 become alcoholics. The bad news is that we do not know which 10 will fall prey to alcoholism. And Gal.5:21 warns: ”those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

As a Friend of sinners, Jesus Christ Never condemned drinking. On the contrary, He Himself Was accused of drunkenness. ”The Son of Man Came eating and drinking, and you said,” Look, He is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.”(Luke7:34NAB).

The Cana miracle , performed before Jesus’ time had come, was not only proof of Mary’s powerful intercession, but also of His Love for celebration and dancing and feasting.(John2:1-11)

Perhaps the key is not exercising freedom or legalism, but responsibility: The Bible says we should not drink when we are kings (those overseeing others), as we are duty bound to help others. But when we are broken and depressed, we are encouraged to drink till we forget our worries. (Proverbs 31:4-7)

Denis Khan
Mumbai

Note: the word Puritanical can be used to describe in general, morally religious and strict behavior according to Webster's Dictionary.

I agree, this whole issue is a little silly. Scripture is pretty clear on this. Drinkiing is OK, but getting drunk or causing a brother or sister to stumble isn't. As with many things, it's not the behavior (drinking) per se, but the motivation and attitude and orientatioon of the heart that matter.

Beats me why some American Christians remain hung up on the abstinence thing when there are so many more important issues out there. Seems to me this is the kind of nitpicky dispute that makes the church less attractive to seekers and unbelievers.

Great topic and great post!

What seems to be missing in this blogalogue (at least so far) are comments from those of you who have either lived through addiction personally, or suffered along with loved one whose life and family was ravaged by alcohol. It would be great to hear some of you who have “been there, done that” to share your views.

It really surprises me that we are still talking about this. Seriously. Can we move on please? How long can we strain at gnats when there are more pressing issues of systemic evil?

Can alcohol be abused? Yes. But so can sex and food. And I don't see Christians give up either of those any time soon.

So can we just move on? Thanks.

I'm sorry, folks, but I am a Christian who doesn't drink, and when I go out with friends, if they drink, it makes me uncomfortable. Not because I think "IT'S WRONG!" because I truly DON'T think it's wrong. The Bible just says "don't get drunk." However, the foolish and loose ways that people act after just one drink cause discomfort for me. If you're going to say "I don't act differently, I must not be one of those kind of people," I think you're not aware of how you act when you drink.
My mom drinks only a little and I hate being in her home when she does. I've been there for dinner parties and NO ONE acts the same way after even one glass of wine. It makes me uncomfortable to be the only person not laughing loudly at things that aren't normally funny otherwise. This isn't becoming, seemly behavior.
I don't think this is because I'm one of the "weaker brethren." Being around others who are not *fully* in control of their behavior is disconcerting and unsettling. But, I agree that, Biblically, you can drink moderately if you want.

I found myself here this evening and after reading everyone's post noticed something missing. Everyone seems to agree that the Scriptures do not forbid alcohol consumption and warns us not to live a life of drunkeness. However, when I was saved some 10 years ago, my desire to consume alcoholic beverages completely disappeared and has never returned, and I know many other Christians who never have a desire to drink also. We all know it is caused by the love the Creator of the universe has bestowed upon us. If Christ's love is so great that people lose their desire to drink, isn't that the message we should be telling others?

1) Do Christians do drugs? I hope not.
2) Alcohol is a mood altering drug. Why would a Christian want to change their mood that way?
Paul wrote do not be drunk with wine but be filled with the Spirit!
3) Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake. Implying that he wasn't already taking wine, probably for the reasons above, but needed some for medicinal purposes.
4) Christians are free to drink, but how many of these free 'strong' Christians are free not to drink?
5) Why do Christians drink? Because they like it? Because it assists conviviality?
Because they don't want to feel different? Not very good reasons to indulge when we are told to avoid things that make a brother stumble and you consider all the mayhem caused by alcohol. We should demonstrate a different better way of living.

After reading through all of these comments, I think I may need a drink.

I think we misunderstand 'causing a brother to stumble' and the 'weak' and 'strong' distinctions aren't always helpful either. 'Causing to Stumble' is far more active than just them seeing you at a restaurant with a beer. The strong use coercion to cause the weak to violate their conscience.

Good article to make one think. However let's give up quoting "Driscoll" ... he isn't my conscience and he forsure isn't my Jesus. Quote the Bible not man.

Phil - Christ's love is so great that it frees me to drink.

Peter Day - why do Christians drink? Because we like it. It is a pleasurable thing. It is a gift from God. I avoid wine and most mixed drinks because I don't like it. But there is nothing more refreshing to me than a pint of good beer. And I drink it to the glory of God.

Paul elaborates on what it means to cause a brother to stumble in Rom 14:22-23 "Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."

I think we'd all agree that it would be selfish (and therefore sinful) for us to order a drink in front of a recovering alcoholic. But Paul says here that it is also sinful if we encourage someone to do something that they aren't personally certain is okay...

It actually makes me uncomfortable when people talk about drinking like it's a big deal. Caffeine is mood-altering and dependency-forming too, but people tend to treat it like it's normal. I wish people would think about beer and wine the same way they think about coffee and tea - okay in moderation.

Oh, and Romans 14:3 is good, too. "Let not the one who [drinks] despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who [drinks], for God has welcomed him."

Pretty much the whole chapter of Romans 14 is fantastic on this subject, as well as the beginning of chapter 15.

I greatly respect and appreciate the theological insights regarding alcohol consumption posted so far. I am perplexed, however, by the lack of comments regarding the “potential” physiological, psychological and spiritual damage that can be caused by the intentional consumption of a toxic, mood-altering chemical. It would be terrific to have the input of individuals in recovery from addiction in the mix.

The end result of alcohol consumption, albeit in limited cases, may be less about offending a brother and more about a life and death drama that not only impacts the individual, but destroys families as well. What so you all?

Here's something that hasn't been raised yet:

Why does the alcohol question appear to be a uniquely American Church debate? Our brothers and sisters in other cultures don't seem to wrestle with this issue as we do. Might our unique history and culture be as much an issue in this discussion as our exegesis of the NT? May it even be THE issue?

It would be well to remember that Prohibition only succeeded in driving Christians out of public life for two generations because no one wanted to listen to anything they said, a situation they find themselves in again it seems.

Yes, why is America's (and American Christians') relationship with alcohol so unique?
We can't blame this on the Puritans, surely, they were not opposed to moderate alcohol consumption.
I'd appreciate any historical insights on where the virtuous teetotalers got their start.

The Temperance movement was rooted in the fact that Americans drank like fish. In 1830, for instance, adults in this country drank an average of 7.1 gallons of absolute alcohol every year -- enough that one history of drinking in this period is titled The Alcoholic Republic. By 1850, however, the social climate had changed enough that adult per capita consumption had dropped to an average of 2.1 gallons (which is roughly what it is today).

Unfortunately, immoderate drinking is still a problem with some groups, especially among high school and college students. In my home state of Oregon, for instance, 10% of eighth-graders, 22% of tenth-graders, and 26% of twelfth-graders report they've had five or more drinks at one sitting in the previous week.

In short, the Temperance movement was an effective response to a real problem in American life.

And whatever your take on Christian freedom may be, we still have a problem with alcohol that needs to be addressed today.

Go have that rum and coke and try to have an encounter with God? Remember; “Whatever things are GOOD, whatever things are PURE etc? Sorry, but there ARE brethren who can stumble at your liberalities. That was one of Jesus’ and Paul’s BIGGEST doctrines. You call them immature or legalists, Jesus calls them babes! You who view this as legalistic are simply desensitized by the modern liberal movement of “church” that is nothing more then a weekend apostate social. I know, that’s so “mean spirited” to say, but we need to wake up. Our ideas on tolerance and the ridiculous notion this author says; “To love our neighbors, we must meet them in their culture,” is about as anti-biblical as it can get. What are you going to do, walk into a sodomite bathhouse and invite them to church? BULL! We are supposed to be peculiar people, not culture enjoining. Look at this way. If that’s what we’re to do, then why did Jesus meet the woman at the well? Why didn’t He go catch her in the act Himself and “witness” to her guy too? Sounds silly to ya? Well, it’s EXACTLY what your telling people to do. No, god said; “COME OUT FROM THEM!” “CAST THE FOOL(S) OUT SO GOD CAN DEAL WITH THEM!” The church of men says; bring em’ in, let’s all be friends. That’s why the church of men and the world all look the same. The church chose man over the Holiness of God. And yes, I guess I’m just one of those mean, bible thumpin’ buttheads who seems to believe what the Bible says. And if your not, what’s that make you?

Url's point about this being a uniquely American issue is interesting, but let's remember that when Christianity is expressed in other cultures it can lead to tea-toddling as well. This isn't a strictly American issue, but is often not quite this contentious.

"Alcohal ruins lives, people don't". It's the opposite of "people kill people, guns don't".

Don't recall caffine or tea ruining lives because of their addictivness, but good try.

Let's legalize marijuana! It's good in moderation, right? Plus, the Bible says nothing about it.

I have been clean and sober for 23 years, through the grace of God and AA. I have also worked with alcoholics and drug addicts at a Christian drug and alcohol rehab center for over 10 years. I believe that the vast majority of people may drink without any ill effects. Those of us who are alcoholics may not.
Their are many issues surrounding alcohol and its consumption that concern me. The idea that we do not need to be concerned about how we are influencing others when we drink is foolhardy. I recently heard of a Youth Pastor who was drinking with a couple of his underage students! I am not sure that is the type of Christ-like influence we are called to by our faith.
The claim that sex and the lust for money have caused more problems than alcoholism is pretty hard to defend. If you truly believe that alcohol is benign, I challenge you to get involved with a ministry that serves those suffering from this deadly disease. After attending a few funerals you may have a different perspective.
This IS a topic worth discussing in our churches and in this forum. I do not think that alcohol consumption is a sin nor do I believe in prohibition. My concern is that we are swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction and may lead to an increase in the number of people who struggle with all the issues that surround alcoholism.

Provocative insights, many are emotional, many just regurgitate old arguments with out any thought to what Scripture has to say. Until we begin to study Scripture with out our preconceived ideal that consumption of alcoholic drinks is sinful we will always be wrestling with this issue while our Europeans Brothers and Sisters are free from such silly entanglements. I can’t help but think the Believers in Europe get a good laugh at our obsession with the question, “to drink or not to drink?”

Rev. M.K. Bufford

Phil @ 5/9/09,

You make good points. I agree that we do need to be concerned how we are influencing others. But that point is just as valid for those advocating total abstinence as well. The Bible does not mandate abstinence from alcohol. Both license and legalism have negative effects on others.

And I will stand by my statement that lust and greed have destroyed more homes, marriages, communities, and lives than alcohol has. I'd also point out that you are conflating alcohol and alcoholism. Drinking is not the same as drunkenness, and no one here is advocating drunkenness.

I don't believe that alcohol is benign -- nothing this side of the Fall is. As I said earlier, every gift God has given carries the potential for abuse and addiction. That demands wisdom and prudence, and for some, perhaps, abstinence.

It seems that we do not generalize abstinence in other behaviors. For example, we believe gays and lesbians should not have sex. But that's not because sex is wrong; it's because we believe their use of it is unhealthy. That's why we don't say married heterosexual couples shouldn't have sex.

Many Christians who believe gambling is reckless and irresponsible invest in the stock market. Clearly they don't think all gambling is wrong; just certain types for certain people.

I'm not sure how alcohol use is different from these examples. Christians in a loving heterosexual relationship can "cause their brother to stumble" when he wants companionship and finds it in another man; Christian businessmen can "cause their brother to stumble" when they say "we lost it all in the market" and another many says "why not lose it all at the track?"

The issue is personal responsibility. Some people shouldn't drink. Some people can--and perhaps some should.

I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

I rejoice in the Lord as I drink my beer. To me, it is just plain un-Christian to abstain from the bounty of the Lord.

I'm not being sarcastic...I hold a seminary degree.

http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2009/05/28/the-joy-of-beer/

Actually, Kerri B., you are one of the weaker brethren. Weaker in this case refers to people whose faith does not allow them to partake.

Just thought I'd let you know.

Dear Brother in Christ
Greetings from Pakistan.
I am from Pakistan. I have studied your web site, and I found it the most wonderful site to get right to the True Word of God. I found that all your material is full of knowledge concerning development of religious faith. Living in Pakistan we Christians is to face many obstacles to get the access to the word of God. Most of the people in Pakistan are not capable to understand the English language and they are hungry of the God's words. It's because our national language is Urdu.
My suggestion for you is to create your material in my language of Urdu and Punjabi also. It will bring lots of blessings of the Word of God for the Pakistani and Indian Urdu and Punjabi speaking people. For that purpose I as a translator will bring your material into Urdu languages and into Punjabi language as well. Although it will take your low expenses as well, as fund for the Word of God to reach out to the deserving people. As a translator I will take the expenses that will be spending just for the Word.

In Christ,
Mehwish