What a delightful man who doesn't march to the beat of the latest drummer.

I've been watching videos used in sermons for years and have yet to be entertained. They always come across as hokey.

oh john...

There's a difference in believing in the power of preaching and in the power of God.

It's really a medium/method discussion, but I think that John is trying to find the sanctity of one method more than another. He's projecting his preferences as sacred, and calling those who don't hold to his exact method as having a lack of faith... in preaching.

The power isn't in the delivery itself, but in what's being delivered: God's truth.

To agree with the first commentor, many videos and dramas are hokey affairs that can't hold a candle to any sermon. It's interesting though seeing a great preacher use a short video clip once in a while. I think most of the time though, preachers supplement weak sermons with video or replace part of a phoned in message with a drama, and that, incidentally, reinforces what John says it does - that preaching is weak and ineffective.

Adiaphora

Hmmm... He believes in the supremacy of preaching and he's PREACHER! Isn't that special! :)

Doesn't John preach via video in his own church? I've visited and watch basically a video recording of him preaching on Sunday.

Hmmmm. Interesting stuff. There's another John Piper who wrote some books about GRACE that I read a while back. It could be interesting to get him to do a counterpoint to this John Piper's remarks...

This isn't a law vs. grace issue. It's a wisdom issue. He opens up his comments with a disclaimer that the Bible is silent on "pictures of fishing trips", etc. Let's not start throwing around the "legalist" tag when he's simply said (paraphrased), "It's a really bad idea that can take us down a bad road."

The majority of people are visual learners. I believe that delivering God's message through drama and video are simply visual tools that truly help minister to those who have difficulty learning through audio alone(statistically the average person will retain only 25% of what they hear}.

The word "preaching" in scripture is defined in the Greek dictionary, a few ways. They are: "to announce good news, declare, bring; proclaim, publish; a proclamation; to hearald(as a public crier). I didn't find a reference as to "how" that preaching is to be done.

I don't believe the use of drama and video during a church service are a "supplement" or simply "entertainment" nor do they depict that preaching is weak, but rather visual aids that can compliment (never replace) the spoken deliverence of "preaching" a sermon.

Respectively,it was God who gave those who are gifted in the arts their talent, and praise be to them for using it to honor and glorify His Holy Name. Praise be to the churches who don't deny them from using their gifts during a Sunday morning worship services.

yet again, another fake issue to fuel another fake controversy.

tedious and boring...

but this is what so many of your leaders do...elevate their preferences to sacred mandate.

I'm glad he likes preaching and believes in the importance of it. I agree...I just don't understand why evangelicals have to saddle their likes and dislikes with categories that really don't obtain.

It's like the pentecostal that calls something "annointed" when what they really mean is "I really, really, really like it".

ugh.

Yet another reason I will (I admit)ignorantly continue to avoid John Piper. I tried to read one of his books years ago and couldn't get past the first chapter without being turned off by what I perceived as arrogance and a one-sided misunderstanding of Jesus. When people talk like this (ahem, Mark Driscoll), don't they realize they are being self-righteous and conceited? I know that >I

Does anyone else wonder if we talk about preaching and teaching as if they are the same but they really are separate? I wonder how Mr. Piper defines them.

As noted by other commenters, preaching DOESN'T save, John - Jesus does. God can and does use whatever He wants to draw people to Himself. I have been blessed to be in a community where we have incredible preaching and teaching - and we often use video clips. The past couple weeks it has been scenes from the new 'Battlestar Galactica'. www.themeetinghouse.ca

Nathan, I laughed out loud at your last line. AWESOME.

What a silly conversation.

a previous poster wrote:

"It's like the pentecostal that calls something 'anointed' when what they really mean is 'I really, really, really like it.' "

I've run into this a lot. People tend to think that which connects with their SOUL and their emotions is ANOINTED. I love Creflo Dollar's illustration. He says "I can get you excited and saying amen, talking about GREENS!"

I'm not against video and/or drama in sermons, but the power is in the WORD of God, and the Word does give supremacy to the preaching of that Word.

What, Dr. Piper? Who ever said all video is entertainment or that the purpose of otherwise entertaining video clips is to entertain? It's called an illustration. God doesn't use secular poetry to get the gospel message across... oh wait, Paul quoted secular poets when preaching to the Athenians at the Areopagus.

What hurts preaching is laziness, prayerlessness, pride, and no anointing. The Word is quick and powerful whether it comes through my i Pod, my TV, or the pastor speaking. Some of the most deceptive preaching I have ever heard was done "live" in the pulpit.

I wonder if the Piperites like Chandler and Driscoll who hang on his ever word will agree with his perspective on this one.

Didn't Jesus use miracles to communicate? Maybe he didn't believe in the power of preaching alone.

Romans 10:13-15 (NASB)
[13] for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”
[14] How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? [15] How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”

@ekkie

Well that certainly cleared things up. *rolls eyes*

Don't just quote scripture, give us your interpretation of it.

Piper is not arrogant if he is correct ... and on this topic, he just happens to be that, correct.

Peace.

Moderation in all things - a steady diet of video clips will lose their effectiveness and could build up the expectation on the part of the congregation that preaching necessarily draws from those sources for illustrations. A "less is more" approach is the best way to go.

Whether we admit it or not, a video is typically entertainment. It usually has music, audio, movement especially if its a movie clip. It demands a different kind of attention compared to words but I do believe it can be an aid if done right.

Let us not forget why preaching is so important. It is a vehicle for the WORD of God to come through flesh and relationships and enter our world. Preaching can only be effective if the people hearing it are thinking people.

Moving/Still do not have the same effect on people compared to words. Anyone in the advertising/communications industries knows this.

Britt- Correctness has no bearing on whether one is arrogant. One may speak the truth and yet do it in a condescending or supercilious manner that can be termed arrogance. Piper does seem to have an inordinate amount of faith in the power of his own preaching.

The truth is that while good sermons can be enhanced by a well chosen music or video clip, bad or mediocre sermons will not be improved by them.

Pastor John, thank you for your thoughtful remarks. I agree and disagree. I think that you are talking about using video/drama as a replacement to preaching. If that is the case then I agree wholeheartedly.

If, on the other hand you are saying that video/drama should not be used as illustrations then I disagree. This is why: The culture today finds its expression particularly through film. In the past it was poetry and then narrative text and music. Now, we primarily find this expression through film. I have heard you preach and you quote from fiction and non-fiction alike. You share stories. The use of film in this vein is no different. It is drawing from our context and using it to apply the text to our hearers.

par-a-ble n. A simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson. – The Grolier International Dictionary.

A parable is a picturesque figure of language in which an analogy refers to a similar but different reality. – The Oxford Companion to the Bible

“Illustrating” and “picturesque” measure up a parable to a mental video. Jesus taught in parables not only to illustrate, but also to aid the memory of his disciples in preserving his teachings. KPaul noted that we will retain 25% of what we hear; to add further to such statistics, we will retain 50% of what we hear AND SEE. Interestingly, we will retain 90% of what we will say (preaching the Word) and do (living the Word).

And, by the way, can one find a better illustration of the love of God for the outcast than the “picturesque” parable of the Prodigal Son? Imagine if it's a movie.

Remember this song? “If a picture can paint a thousand words...”

I think that John Piper is a great preacher and teacher. He may be a little "old fashioned", but he is a mentor to a number of the most "hip" young preachers of the day. I think he is just warning that we can fall into the trap of becoming church fans, instead of followers of Christ and we have to avoid making too much effort to entertain, at the expense of proclaiming the gospel and teaching the members of the Church. Just my two cents.

Preaching is not supreme - Christ is! There is a reason why all extra-biblical Church history points toward weekly Eucharist: the sermon is not the main thing, the Lord, Master, and God is supreme. The western world has intellectualized and rationalized the faith, reducing it to only one sense of the body (hearing) and one faculty of the person (nous).

This nathan concurs with that Nathan.

Good comments Nathan. I agree fully, and this is from someone who preaches weekly and very occasionally uses video clips. But the moment I think my preaching saves, or is even the primary way God uses to save people, I am sunk in my own hubris.

One could make an argument that Piper's preaching is drama - Why does he raise his voice and make inflections or wave his hands for that matter - is that really so different from showing a video clip to push a point?

If Piper says it, I believe it, and that settles it!

*insert eye roll here*

ROFWBIHL @ Elle

(rolling on floor with Bible in hand laughing)

His starting words are correct. My thoughts, my feelings. I am concerned...
Sounds a lot like the "what do you think about those choruses folks are singing these days" people don't believe it the power of hymns... quoting Col. 3.16

A debate on this topic is fruitless.

We must not forget that "Preaching" is shown in the process of a soul being saved in Romans 10. Dr. Piper can be correct that churches or pastors may be driven to draw people with dramas and videos when preaching doesn't seem to do it; which could eventually be shallow. But videos and dramas done well for the Lord can and do influence people toward the Kingdom.

We now grant grace to Dr. Piper, just as Jesus now does, whether we disagree with him or suspect he might be boasting. Yes, we honor God by remembering 1 Cor. 8, (paraphrased) "Now about video clips and drama; we all know about that stuff or at least have an opinion. Well, knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. The man who says he knows, doesn't really know yet. But the one who loves God is known by God." Dr. Piper loves God, and so do all you posters.

“Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.” St Francis of Assisi.

seems as though the man is giving his explicit opinion, nothing more nothing less.

"As noted by other commenters, preaching DOESN'T save, John - Jesus does. God can and does use whatever He wants to draw people to Himself." -nathan

"For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE"- The Holy Bible 1 Corinthians 1:21

God can use whatever he wants to draw people to himself, But God CHOSE preaching...

This is exactly why you should restrict audio visual equipment to the displaying of hymn lyrics and church schedules...

When a preacher is so bereft of the Spirit of God to have to resort to the filth of Hollywood to illustrate his message, The line has been crossed.

What ever happened to Spirit filled Preaching, where the listeners were captivated by every Word that proceeds from the pastors mouth because the Holy Spirit was moving through the gathering, using his message to Convict people of their sins, and draw them to the Love of God, manifested in The Lord Jesus Christ?

It has been replaced with secular garbage from the television or movie screen, used to illustrate shallow motivational speeches,
that fail in comparison to good expository preaching. Sermon illustrations Should come from a preacher whose mind and heart are close to God, and whose Walk doesn't stink with the elements of the world...

Hollywood has no business in the church...period.

So all you emergent types can call me arrogant, and Pharisee.. whatever...
Big Deal...Save the audiovisuals for Sunday School and leave the Pulpit to the preacher and The Spirit of God. Old fashioned, perhaps. Biblical...definitely.

Dorian, if you think your idea of what constitutes "preaching" is "biblical," you might wish to read some sermons in the New Testament, most of which would run all of five or ten minutes long. Plenty of preachers would be out of a job if they tried that.

How do you distinguish an audience captivated by the Spirit and one captivated by their own self-importance? Those who obsess with "old-fashioned, biblical preaching" often seem like they are "heaping to themselves teachers" (2Tim 4:3) - they still love doctrine, just not the kind that comes from the apostles.

is it "emergent" to disagree with people who elevate their preferences to universal absolute?

really?

who is the "Nathan" with a capital "N"? Cuz this "nathan" really digs what that "Nathan" has to say....

A little corrective to something said in the first sentence of the article may be in order.

It was stated John Piper believes in "the supremacy of preaching." In a sense that seems true, in that he elevates it above other forms of communication of God's word, at least in a church service.

This first sentence is a subtle twist on the title of Piper's book, "The Supremacy of GOD in Preaching." The focus of the supremacy there is God, not preaching.

I think this twist of wording opened the door for some commenters to have run down a rabbit trail they might not have, had the quoted sentence not sounded similar to the title of Piper's book.

Piper knows God ultimately saves, not preaching per se. Listen to a couple of Piper's prayers before his sermons and you will know he has little confidence in himself as preacher, or his choice of words, to save, but is very aware that nothing will happen in the hearts of listeners unless God acts.

Pick your battles John.

I love your preaching & typically and with you, but it seems you are expressing your extra-biblical preference and trying to make a rule out of it.

In my humble opinion, there is no need to argue this one.

As several comments have already said, there is a lot to both agree and disagree with here. I love John's heart...he really loves to proclaim biblical truth. And whether we adhere to all he teaches (and I don't) we cannot miss his admiration and commitment to the use of Kerygma style communication.

I have been a preacher for 30 years and I share his love of good preaching. But I also know that most preaching I have heard in the last 20 years is not anointed, inspiring or helpful. Many times it is delivered by under-equipped, sub-standard messengers. Those looking for a church often have a choice between anointed, undertrained proclaimers, unanointed well-trained teachers, or unanointed, poorly-trained time-wasters. It is rare to find Anointed, well-trained Preachers.

Many preachers know they aren't making the grade. So they resort to spicing up their delivery with proven techniques of communication - video and audio snippets of well-produced parabolic truth - hoping to stop the outflow of disinterested hearers.

I hear John Piper crying out for good preaching that doesn't need gimmicks to make it better. I agree with that. But I don't think that completely precludes a well-chosen parable in visual form to speak to a new generation.

My fear is that we will bypass the necessity of teaching the art of public speaking, ignore the essential quality of Holy Spirit anointing, and settle for a weekly homage to television and movies. If John seems extreme by disallowing video in his sermons, it is because he is so gifted at what he does.

Others are not as gifted. They need to figure out why.

As at least one other comment pointed out, the words translated as "preach" etc. in the NT have a range of meaning that includes proclaim, declare, announce, even simply "tell." But what these words do not mean is to "deliver a sermon." So, defining the word as Scripture does, Piper's sermons are no more preaching than dramatic forms of communication are.

This doesn't diminish the helpfulness of discussing which methods are most effective in which contexts, but it does mean that we should be very careful about taking our current understanding of "preaching" and plugging it back into the Bible. This is anachronistic and simply incorrect.

And, to echo some of you, we need to be even more careful not to assume that my preferred method is better than others and therefore a necessity. Scripture actually doesn't instruct us to "preach" in the church gathering to believers. What the elders are repeatedly tasked with is "teaching" the people. What are the most effective methods for teaching? I think asking that question might change the nature of the discussion.

"Entertainmet" - That which engages the attention agreeably, amuses or diverts, whether in private, as by conversation, etc., or in public, by performances of some kind; amusement.
We use videos, sparingly, to, "engage the attention agreeably." There is nothing wrong with that

wow. this strikes me as being a really odd video and discussion.

the arrogance of a man set in his ways. another thing for mr. piper to be against i guess.

i feel compelled to remind mr. piper that all his preaching would be worthless dribble without the power of the holy spirit. it's not the preaching mr. piper, it's the GOD.

So... someone who comes to the knowledge and saving grace of Jesus Christ through Preaching is good,,,but through drama or video or by any other means in worship Service is bad?? We are to govern any Idea or action from what Jesus Christ leads and not any man.. ( no matter how great of a preacher or author he may be.

PS. Jesus taught many times in parables .... i wonder why??? could it be that he knew us better than we know ourselves. We are drawn to and respond to things we can relate to.

A question to consider ... if video was a part of the life and times of our Savior...would he have utilized it?? after all .. he did use MANY visuals in his teachings... or have we become so full of ourselves and in our preaching abilities to forget that.

I think the quote from Paul, that it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe is the Spirit's answer to all the visual aids, etc. Having done 6 yrs of research on all 2000 yrs of church history, I think it is rather safe to say that God in Christ appointed preaching as the way He provided for the continued salvation of believers in this world. The First and Second Great Awakenings and the origins of the Great Century of Missions are so closely tied to preaching that there is no room for anything else. And through the centuries the renewal of the Faith has always come through preaching....not through the passion plays and high church rituals in the Dark Ages. Those who did such things were busy implementing the inquisition. I can still remember the nightmare caused by reading about the persecution of the Waldensians. Could our present day entertaimental mentality and modality be the precursor of more persecution?

Umm, anyone else spot the irony in watching a video of a preacher explaining that he reckons that he is against video clips because he believes in preaching....
Thanks John, perhaps- just perhaps- the form of the message undercut your main point. Unless sometimes, video can also be a form of preaching....

Interesting discussion! I guess it all comes down to what has primacy in the preaching -the word or the illustration thereof. I guess video clips et al can kind of be like Paul's statue to an unknown god. That is, they connect with the audience. But as long as there's more than just the connecting, I don't see the problem.

One of the guys in the comments wrote that the problem is probably more about laziness than anything else. I guess that could be true - if you use a video clip because it's of benefit to the gospel, that's one thing. If you use it because you can't be bothered expressing the idea yourself then that's quite another!

It's the belief in the power of the Word of God that's at stake here :
Rom.10,17
Isaiah 55,11

I thought the issue was communication and proclamation? Isn't it the message that saves? Any good teacher/communicator will tell you that there are many different learning styles. Monologue preaching is only one form and research will tell you it has limited educational effectivess - particularly in a world of short attention spans. I think both Jesus and Paul would have used any means possible to reach people with the message of the Gospel, be it drama, visuals, technology AND the spoken word!

Preaching the Gosple should be looked from a broader prospevtive.Preaching the Good news for me is sharing the gosple.
1)There can be many ways ,other than an orel Sermon.
2)Many Prophets in the old testement had narrated messages to people-it was the way God wanted to pass the message to his people.
3)Jesus him self narated many things -Eg: taking a child from the crowed to teach about the entrance qualification to the kINGDOM.The storey of the dry sycomor tree ..etc.

Nathan, The issue is not length, it is content and delivery. Maybe I am Old Fashioned, but when you step into a Church, and the stage looks like something out of a Rush concert, and "Worship team" blasts out music that sounds amazingly like Ac/Dc, The congregation is bouncing around and dancing, to repetitive choruses and songs the could equally refer to your girlfriend as to Christ, and this Being followed by a message that uses clips from "The Office", or "Star Wars" or "I Love Lucy" as a basis for illustration, I have to pose question to you...

How do you distinguish a Gathering that comes to worship God in the Spirit of Holiness, from one who seeks to be entertained with the rudiments of the world?
Your use of the word "Audience" as opposed to gathering or congregation, is quite telling. It seems to me that church has become a weekly public performance, as opposed to a time to worship God in spirit and truth...
By the way, sorry about the rambling. to much coffee flavored coffee...

"Is it "emergent" to disagree with people who elevate their preferences to universal absolute?"

No... it is Emergent to deny there is an absolute truth and do what feels good...

wow. so reasoned disagreement (as seen here) with mr. piper amounts to the denial of absolute truth and the capitulation to whatever feels good?

i mean, when you throw out the "emergent" label in the face of disagreement, that's what your argument starts boiling down to.

and that's not what's happening here...

Letus see if any of this Piper's preaching and our modern video's teaching tallies with these:

1 Corinthians 1: 18-25
For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.19 For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will thwart the cleverness of the intelligent."20 Where is the wise man? Where is the expert in the Mosaic law? Where is the debater of this age? Has God not made the wisdom of the world foolish?21 For since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased to save those who believe by the foolishness of preaching.22 For Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks ask for wisdom,23 but we preach about a crucified Christ, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles.

My usual advice to fellow workers is that your message should explain the Word and apply it with apt illustrations. But it should not be about illustrations without the exposition of the Word.

I think if videos are just illustrations-then it would be fine as per Paul's guideline.

And yes the message of the preacher should be about Christ and him crucified.

"but this is what so many of your leaders do...elevate their preferences to sacred mandate."

I see no part of this video where Piper has done such a thing, he simply expressed his OPINION.

You on the other hand in your disagreement with Piper see him elevating his preference to sacred mandate, yet...

Sacred Scripture does support his position.

As for the emergent remark, perhaps I was more than a little out of line, please forgive me, it was a rough morning.. I am Sorry nathan and Nathan... there is two of you right?

Dorian,

no worries.

disagreement aside, i hope your days are peaceful.

I love the preaching of John Piper but i dont ascribe to him infallibility on his personal preferences. If John is correct on this one, then thousands of those who have been saved on the Jesus Film, are going to hell. They have been entertained not preached at. Wow! Many of these films have reached millions of people than all theologians like John Piper combined. So, when Jesus said, "Look at the birds...lilies of the field..." There should be an added footnote there, "But don't look, just listen...this is not entertainment. Solomon said, "Consider the ants..." To Jeremiah God said through a vision, "What do you see..." Even God now is at fault because God used visuals to communicate his message. After all, preaching shouldn't be dramatic. The burning bush is a sham to preaching because God drew Moses' attention to it and visuals are entertainment. Hahahaha...i wonder whwere is theology in all of it. Oh by the way, visions and miracles are banned too by Piper. They are no longer biblical.

I love the preaching of John Piper but i dont ascribe to him infallibility on his personal preferences. If John is correct on this one, then thousands of those who have been saved on the Jesus Film, are going to hell. They have been entertained not preached at. Wow! Many of these films have reached millions of people than all theologians like John Piper combined. So, when Jesus said, "Look at the birds...lilies of the field..." There should be an added footnote there, "But don't look, just listen...this is not entertainment. Solomon said, "Consider the ants..." To Jeremiah God said through a vision, "What do you see..." Even God now is at fault because God used visuals to communicate his message. After all, preaching shouldn't be dramatic. The burning bush is a sham to preaching because God drew Moses' attention to it and visuals are entertainment. Hahahaha...i wonder whwere is theology in all of it. Oh by the way, visions and miracles are banned too by Piper. They are no longer biblical.

1. God is the transformer. Not a pastor preaching. God uses great preachers every day as well as horrible ones.
2. Brain research shows that lecturing alone is a very poor way of communicating. Facilitated discussion is by far the best medium for retaining content.

On the whole I have to agree with Pastor Piper. I personal find no harm in an occasional video clip being used.

However, I do find that the “church” is moving steadily into an entertainment mode to present the gospel (Black out theater lighting, drama, and I Love Lucy Bible studies.)

If we capitulate to worldly pragmatism and current trends we will find ourselves marginalized.

Some may call this self-referencial incoherence.