"...what turns off iGens about the church is that it's too organized, political, judgmental, chauvinistic, homophobic, arrogant, and fundamentalist. But Kimball's research uncovered that iGens like Jesus."

Well, imagine that people liking Y'shua...what a concept...what about the obeying his commands, loving ones neighbor...so many people "like" Y'shua, but to actually become a follower...yeah, whole other story.

So... is this like the "pre-gospel gospel"? I agree that much of salvation is a process; a process of God drawing the "unsaved" to Himself. At some point, though, a decision is made to follow Jesus. This decision is not just to be counted as a follower, but to enter into the holiness of God through the work of the Spirit in our lives. Jesus' finished work on the cross and all that it means can't come out of the blue - that makes this Gospel sound more like a slick sales pitch with the fine print detailing the "sin and holiness stuff".
Jesus said to Nicodemus, "you must be born again." I guess the question is, "Did Jesus put it that way because He was talking to Nicodemus (a "churchy" person) and tailered the message to Him, or because it is an important part of the Gospel itself?"
Absolutely it is about Jesus. The changed life He promotes and talks about though is a result of the salvation experience of recognizing we're a sinner and we can't do it by ourselves. Maybe the focus needs to be on pride of the iGens.

I am not sure quite what you mean Steve. Are you saying you disagree with the article's idea that we need to first establish a moral point from which to explain the gospel, or that the gospel can stand on its own and doesn't need any prepping?

Personally I think the idea has some merit. As a college student I am constantly hearing people asking me - "how do you know what is right and wrong, how do you know truth, how do we know anything?" The gospel is power, but that power needs to be applied correctly, and simply saying to a person like that 'well, you need to be born again' would probably just confuse them.

I am not sure how you mean to use the example of Jesus and Nicodemus. Are you saying that this approach worked for Jesus and it still works? I would say yes, to a degree, but Nicodemus was coming from a culture vastly different from our own, and he understood things in a different way than people understand them now.

I would suggest that it is not merely the iGen that has little understanding of sin. It is in fact it is a raw part of human nature since the beginning of time to be unaware of sin in ones life. Paul said, "Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." Rom. 7:7 Paul also said, God has written His law on everyone's heart. To any given extent, many people repress their heart for convenience or are taught to ignore it and enjoy benefits of being your own lawmaker. It's really nothing new, is it?

"Yet deciding to stake one's life on Jesus and the cross requires a sense that we are wrong, that we need Jesus, and that his saving death and resurrection can become effective."

The outcome of this realization is not necessarily a feeling of guilt, but a sense of humility. I think there are important but subtle distinctions that can be made between humility, brokenness, shame, and culpability. All of these and more are what people are often referring to when they speak about "feeling guilty." Just because someone doesn't feel deep remorse for their sin, doesn't mean they don't have a strong sense of morality. It may just mean that they've fully accepted their own brokenness, taken responsibility for it, and moved on.

The challenge has always been to make sure we are culturally relevant with the Gospel message. That's not new. I know that for the most part you can't just go up and say, "You are a sinner, now get saved." We all assent to that. Ed Silvoso in Prayer Evangelism looks at Luke 10 and says Evangelism (witness) is the last of 4 steps, not the first.
What I don't hear in these discussions is how they make the connection between establishing a "moral point" (or what that is) and the Gospel itself. How much of that moral point is God using us, and how much of it is the work of the Holy Spirit drawing people to God? We are told to focus on Jesus, but what does that mean? If we were like Peter in Acts, we would start with the history of the USA (or Canada for some of us) and talk about how the fleeing of religious persecution in Europe was foundational in the formation of the US; and how the Judeo Christian ethic underpins the nation's laws and code of ethics.
If people don't recognize Jesus as anything more than a myth, maybe Jesus isn't the starting point either. Paul used the idol in Athens; but the message always ended with Jesus' finished work on the cross.
I don't have a definitive stance on Nicodemus, just like you Matt, but when we say let's start with Jesus, that's what He said.
And I disagree with the last paragraph, because John 3 does contain the gamut of judgement and eternal life and God's love and Jesus' redeeming death.
Maybe the discussion of absolutes and morality is where we need to engage the culture in discussion. Where do you start when the college students don't accept the truth of the Bible, the reality of God, or the fact of sin?

Steve, you might wish to re-read the passage on Nicodemus. Yes, he was a 'churchy person' yet he was clueless as to Jesus' meaning of being 'born again' and hence asks, "how can a man be born when he is old, can he enter a second time into his mother's womb?" Clearly, Nicodemus was totally confused by Jesus words - and this in a one-on-one conversation with Jesus which Nick initiated! What was Jesus thinking? Surely he could have found a better analogy that would have resonated with where Nick was coming from. It would appear that Nicodemus came face to face with Jesus (in the flesh) and Jesus failed to communicate well enough with him to get through. Hmm..... I love the part where Jesus says, "are you a teacher of Isreal and yet you do not understand these things?" The same could be said of many an 'Evangelical' pastor today. Read for yourself below:

Joh 3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
Joh 3:2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him."
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus said to him, "How can these things be?"
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?
Joh 3:11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
Joh 3:21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God."

First:

"I never measure my congregation, I weigh it." Dr. Joseph Parker

It's not all about numbers, it's also about depth and density.

Second:

Paul instructs each believer to prepare a word, hymn, etc. to strengthen the church. How many believers prepare for church meetings today? How many get a chance to share?

I'm not suggesting the New Testament be used as a blueprint for every little detail in a meeting. In the same chapter, Paul indicates that women should remain silent. I'm referring to a more open meeting format that allows Christ to express himself through every member of the body.

I'm convinced passive consumption of the Word will not suffice in "Post-Christendom."

Sorry, wrong post for previous comment.

I really appreciate this discussion. As the mother of a teenager, I find myself discussing with my daughter evangelism in a world of moral ambiguity and relativism. Given that iGens have an increasing need for self-esteem (through outside reinforcement), I find one approach that provides a great launchpad for discussion is from Romans 1 (esp. verses 22-25) "Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images...They exchanged the truth of God for a lie." There is something in this generation that connects with the idea that "there must be something more". Most juvenile fiction that became popular in their youth (e.g. Harry Potter) portrayed the idea of a child being more than what was seen. There is something very powerful in the understanding that something real and true has been exchanged for something false. Something has been lost. Something must be found. Their fantasy fiction creates quests. I think the Gospel message is the most amazing quest of all and when my daughter sees the truth of Jesus in those around her, connects to the heart of God while praying for a friend or helping the poor, and receives a revelation of who He is in the words she reads or the songs she sings, I watch her embrace God's glory like she is fulfilling a personal quest. Her faith has been made "real". I don't personally work with a lot of youth, so I don't know how well this translates to a larger group of young people, but the journey, the quest, the pursuit to know God *personally* is what I've seen inspire my daughter.

This idea that this new generation doesn't understand moral guilt is ridiculous.
Ask a young adult if they feel guilt about throwing away a napkin without recycling it?
Or if they had a choice between buying a Prius or continuing to drive dad's old gas guzzling car?

Ask them to clarify why they believe it's wrong to buy starbucks coffee over fair trade?

They have a sense of right and wrong--many times its just not whether you should sleep with your girlfriend or not, imo unfortunately.

Melody, I don't quite understand your comment to me about Nicodemus, though I certainly agree with what you posted. My initial question about Nicodemus was how broad can we draw the principles in the story. The second comment is that we find Jesus talking about salvation, His death, judgement, eternal life - all the elements of the "old" Gospel message in one place... before He even died!

I love what you said Michelle - That's the kind of concrete answer that is often absent from a discussion like this.

One other thought is not new, but bears repeating. How did Jesus and the early church deal with their young people? They grabbed them in and mentored them. Jesus had His 12 and 70. Paul had his Timothy. There's much to be said in grabbing our adolescents with programs like CSB Ministries' Battalion (for boys aged 12-18), where a "personal discipleship program" (ie, achievements) is used in the context of a man/boy relationship. It is as good for the boy as it is for the man.

Ministry Lesson from a Pope

"What is youth? ...he searches...for answers to basic questions; he searches not only for the meaning of life but also for a concrete way to go about living his life. This is the most fundamental characteristic of youth. Every mentor, beginning with parents, let alone every pastor, must be aware of this characteristic and must know how to identify it...I will say more: He must love this fundamental aspect of youth." - Pope John Paul II, "Crossing the Threshold of Hope" (He initiated the World Youth Day in 1986 and chronicled a current world record for the largest papal gathering of 4 million attendees in Manila, Philippines)

The key to the answers to youth's basic questions we may find in Erik Erikson's sixth stage (age 18-35) of human development: Intimacy vs. Isolation. Erikson describes intimacy as finding oneself yet losing such in another. To achieve intimacy, one must form healthy friendships and/or intimate relationship with another person; otherwise, isolation would pitch its tent in oneself.

"...anywhere the Pope goes, he seeks out the young and the young seek him out. Actually, in truth, it is not the Pope who is being sought at all. The one being sought is Christ....who walks through the centuries alongside each generation, alongside every person. He walks along each person as a friend. An important day in a young person's life is the day on which he becomes convinced that this is the only Friend who will not disappoint him, on whom he can always count." - Pope John Paul II

Hi...
Thank you for sharing such a nice information. I like this site very much. I will surely bookmark it for future use. Good Work! Keep it up!

Dear Brother in Christ
Greetings from Pakistan.
I am from Pakistan. I have studied your web site, and I found it the most wonderful site to get right to the True Word of God. I found that all your material is full of knowledge concerning development of religious faith. Living in Pakistan we Christians is to face many obstacles to get the access to the word of God. Most of the people in Pakistan are not capable to understand the English language and they are hungry of the God's words. It's because our national language is Urdu.
My suggestion for you is to create your material in my language of Urdu and Punjabi also. It will bring lots of blessings of the Word of God for the Pakistani and Indian Urdu and Punjabi speaking people. For that purpose I as a translator will bring your material into Urdu languages and into Punjabi language as well. Although it will take your low expenses as well, as fund for the Word of God to reach out to the deserving people. As a translator I will take the expenses that will be spending just for the Word.

In Christ,
Mehwish

Dear,Pastor Praise The Lord,

I am a church Evangelist I am looking for some supportes who willingly support our cause to carry on our visin among North Indians . I am a Hindu Convert who accepted Christ as saviour in the year 1995 and I am working among Punjabi Hindus. I have a vision to start a new ministry registered with the Government rules. I am looking for someone to help me to carry it in and pls pray for me,and help me.who will help me.
can you send me $50 per month for starting a new church in the non-christan people. Kindly keep this in mind and send us your reply as guided by the Holy Spirit
With much regards and blessings to you all
Bible,says.(2corinthians-9:9)-(james-4:17)
I shall be thankful to you.
With much love .
Your’s in Christ
Pastor Darpen Masih
MY E-MAIL pastordarpen333@yahoo.com