If you're truly called to a people and a location, you won't quit just because you can't be paid anymore. God's call is not tied to salary. Whether pastoral ministry or any other ministry - if you're called, you'll find a way to do it, even if it means working two jobs PLUS being in ministry. One of the many things I love about church planting - if you're called to it, whether as a pastor, deacon, or in some other role, it sure won't be for the money!

I agree with above comment. I think pastors too often are called to a "job" instead of being called to a mission. Like Paul, the mission should be priority, how you pay for the mission should not deter you from doing the mission. I for one would like to see a push toward bi-vocational ministry where pastors require more from their churches members in terms of involvement including management and administration. Then, they could easily work a part-time job allowing time for sermon prep. Again, speaking of a "pastor/preacher" her and not a full-time shepherd. Get the folks in the pews out of them and involved in the mission of caring for the broken, otherwise, Yes... you'll have way too much to do in a part-time role.

Hah! Who ever goes into the "ministry" for the money? Maybe for the schedule (one day a week - sic)), but not for the money.
Unless you are one of the pastors at the top of the health and wealth pyramid schemes...

I think it is unfair to claim that if God calls someone to something then they should be happy to work two jobs and be a pastor. No one should be happy to work two jobs and be a pastor (and presumably spouse and parent.)

Pastors deserve to be paid.

And by the way, churches should be paying into unemployment system. Because more than a few pastors I know lost their jobs, and received no unemployment because the churches opted out. (The opt out exists because churches are supposed to be pledging to take care of their employees so that they would not need unemployment, not as a way to save .5 to 1% of employment costs.)

Adam, I emphatically agree that pastors should be paid - and I think it is awful for a church to not pay it's pastor well if it can do so. I can't express strongly enough how important and biblical I believe it is to pay our pastors. Pastors do not need to live poorer than their congregations. I am in bi-vocational ministry, but not as a pastor, and I do everything in my power, and give as much as I can, to make sure our church's pastors are well-paid for full-time ministry, in spite of our tight budget (I keep the church books so I know).

My concern was with the attitude of pastors expressed in the article who seem too willing to leave their ministries just because they can't be paid anymore. Is bi-vocational ministry ideal? Not usually, in my opinion, ESPECIALLY if the pastor has a family. But we need to check our calling if we'll give up as soon as our church can't pay us anymore.

One hand: parsonage exemption. Other hand: no payment into unemployment. Seems to me that this one more than balances out.

We have have allowed our religious institutions to become market driven and then we cry when the market turns. There are alternatives, but no one wants to talk about them.

Ed, I appreciate the fact that you are living what you are asking for. And I agree that many pastors are not really living the calling that they have been given. But most parishioners are not either. Average giving (including non-church giving) is only about 3 percent. Almost all churches could support their pastor if they really wanted to.

Jeff, I agree there issues with the tax code. But churches can participate in unemployment. The problem is that most choose not to, and the reason is not a belief that they should not rely on the state to care for the church, but to save money. I have heard church after church tell me this.

captia: barfoot $65,000-a-year

I always find it ironic that people want pastors to work for free but they themselves would not work for free. They would not turn down a raise and if they were asked to take a 25% pay cut but keep working as hard... most would say NOPE.

Considering acts 4:32-34 the level of sharing and distribution documented here equaling no needy people among them. Considering, "first shall be the last" . How about for some this: a pastor with/out a family living in the same house/shelter as another family or a bachelor. Bearing each others burdens, counting the specific costs. Much more can be said of this topic. -ED said "There are alternatives, but no one wants to talk about them" If a person would humble them self before the Word of God and His given priorities for us the solutions become clear. Where there's a will, there's a way--------Where there's His will, there's the way.

Leonard, I totally agree with you.

Nobody goes into ministry for the money, to be sure, but we have families and college tuitions to pay for just like everyone else, plus many of us have debt from seminaries. A worker is worth his wages. We don't need much, but fair pay shouldn't even be a question.

in general, pastors will never be paid on par with their education costs alone.

the housing exemption helps, but it's not really that big of a deal when you consider how many churches generally low ball your overall package.

I'm in the midst of this. I'm unemployed in a church where most bishops do not allow their ministers to work another job, and I hear from those bishops that they are not sure they will have any work for me - they have open parishes, but no funding. I want to propose a bivocational ministry, but so far, unofficially, most other ministers are horrified at the thought! I would need to be funded for a year or two by the parish, then reduce my church earnings while working in the community. Will it fly? Who knows? If the Holy Spirit is in it, it will!

The Bible is so clear on the tithe and on the fact that the "laborer is worth of his hire". That being said, Paul was careful to be a tent maker in addition to his ministry so as not to be beholden to the churches. But just think about this - if a church has twenty families each tithing a true, before tax, 10% of their income ($40,000 average for instance) that would be $4,000 from each family each year. Multiply by 20 and you have $80,000 gross income to the church. The pastor would be paid a $40,000 salary and there would be $40,000 left for other church expenses. It seems to me that God has clearly made provision in the life and work of believers to provide for pastors of even small churches. So what's the problem? Pastors are reluctant to preach on tithing because people don't want to hear it, yet it is such a clear Biblical teaching. Old Testament: Mal 3:8 "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings." Mal 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."

Mat 22:21 "Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."

Melody, it might be bigger than just pastors don't want to teach on it. In fact for us and for the pastors I know, we all faithfully teach on it. We have people who simply refuse.

We have preached, taught classes, used a 5 day printed devotional, encouraged, celebrated and even shared need. All of which has done little to help.

We have people come to Christ every week, small groups are filled and over 80% of the church serves regularly. We serve our community on a regular basis, help those in need... but still struggle with the giving. If every one gave, we would have close to 500k a year, probably more. As it is we all took huge pay cuts, closed an office and now work from our homes. We do not own a building, we rent a school. None of our staff have insurance, expense accounts for ministry, and all our staff are faithful and generous givers.

One problem as I see it, people believe CNN and FOX more than their bible. So they handle $ as though it is theirs and not a tool to expand the kingdom.

Leonard,

I agree with you. The problem here is the hearts of rebellious people. I count myself among them. The Bible tells us that the love of money is the root of all evil. I always used to think that I was above that because I wasn't striving to become rich like others. I have come to realize that this verse means the love of "my" money is the root of all evil because of my obsessive desire to keep it or spend it on my desires.

I think it is more than people just don't give. I give, but I don't give much (and in some years nothing) to my local church. My local churches have never really needed it. Thier bills are paid, their staff taken care of (maybe not as well as they should, but it is not a lack of money that prevents them from being taken care of as they should.)

In general the two churches I have belonged to as an adult did not spend money outside of their body well. And I have a number of friends and family that are self supporting missionaries and I believe in international development. So I give to friends and family that are doing the work they are called to do(about half), with about 1/3 to international development and about 1/5 to US poverty reduction (Christian para-churches mostly). That leave just a token amount for my local church. At times I am concerned about my lack of funding to the local church. But I go to a business meeting (or am chair of the deacons in my last church) and the funding priorities continue to be internal, so I keep giving the way that I have been giving.

Given that most churches are quite small, it may be the best model is a pastoring team of bi-vocational pastors. Another thought: the growing interest in business as mission for overseas outreach may also need to be leveraged for work in the US.

I'd be happy to work another job so that my congregation could use what it pays me for other purposes. But in this rural area there just aren't that many jobs for someone with my skills. Also, my denominational polity rejects the very idea (unless I were only part time and unordained).

Welcome to the underground church. We'd be happy to take you.

Most of you will have to get over the bitterness of the system letting you down, the pride of being one of the chosen few (or the only) voices for God, and the devastation of being rejected by the people you served with all you had to give. It's a pretty tough lesson - but God is in this thing. You can either die in the desert - or push thru to the promised land.

It's okay - most all of us undergrounders have had to walk thru a lot of this - we're here to help you. God loves you very much. He has your best interest in mind in all of this - believe me - it's true.

I am a part of a church plant with very minimal salary and no benefits. The giving has just not been there (which would be a whole other topic), so I've been trying to become bi-vocational, but the biggest obstacle I face is that after years in the ministry, it's hard trying to figure out to how translate my skills/seminary degree to the secular marketplace. How do you get an employer to even consider someone like me in this economy? What kind of job or employer would allow me the flexibility to still do ministry-related tasks? Is there another option than applying at the local Starbucks?

Pastors are people too, with families, bills, tuition, etc. It's too easy for others to say, "that's your calling." We live in this world and have the same human necessities. We're not asking for luxuaries.

My advice to any young person coming into ministry is to "diversify" ... study something non-ministry related, learn skills that are marketable on the chance that your passion in ministry can't pay enough.

I'm not saying there's any excuse for a congregation not supporting its pastor(s) financially, but I wonder if there's another major factor at play in the rising unemployment stats. I'm not saying that access to education is a bad thing, but one of the consequences of increasing the number of programs, program sizes, etc., especially in smaller fields like the pastorate, is an oversaturation of qualified people for jobs that simply don't exist in such great numbers. How many of those unemployed pastors are not ones who were laid off, but ones who can't get a job in the first place?

I remember about 12 years ago, I was finishing up high school and there was a huge boom in my region of new post-secondary programs for computer programming...and suddenly, a few years later, there was an overwhelming number of graduates with computer-related university degrees who couldn't find work in their field. And that field is much larger than the pastorate, and growing far more quickly.

I wonder how things would change if higher education was disassociated from choosing a career. What I mean is, if more people did the stuff they love, they were called for, they were made for, in their spare time just for fun. I love academics - politics, sociology, history, cultural studies, etc. - but I also love working with my hands. I couldn't afford to study both in a formal context, and working with one's hands makes for very expensive hobbies, so in the end I went to trade school and continue to pursue academic studies by means of libraries, journals, news, the internet, writing papers, talking to people in academia. In my spare time. For fun. Because I love it, and I'm not bad at it. It usually costs me nothing, and I usually get paid nothing for it, but that doesn't mean it's not worthwhile.

Now, that also doesn't mean I don't share my spare time with "less noble" pursuits, like my Xbox - but you can have more than one hobby, no? :)

We in the church hear so much about how there are too many overworked pastors and not enough lay servants. What would the landscape look like if less people with a gift and a calling pursued *employment* as a pastor, and went into lay ministry instead? We need those people, badly. I think a large part of my generation has forgotten that you can and should educate yourself in and pursue things that you'll likely never be paid for.

Why have more than 10 pastors in the US when we just broadcast them via satellite church? I mean, we only want the best preachers right? Not the ones that are called to the ministry? (emphasis on sarcasm)

GIVING STATE 1: "...the love of 'my' money is the root of all evil because of my obsessive desire to keep it or spend it on my desires." - Melody

GIVING STATE 2: "I give, but I don't give much..." - Adam

GIVING STATE 3: "I do everything in my power, and give as much as I can, to make sure our church's pastors are well-paid for full-time ministry..." - Ed

GIVING STATE N: "We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread." - Victor Frankl

What is that "something" that transforms a person from GIVING STATE 1 to GIVING STATE 2 to GIVING STATE 3 to GIVING STATE N ultimately?

Francis Chan caught one good wave as his answer that has taken him back to shore - the wave of the Holy Spirit: "There's got to be something supernatural, something only the Holy Spirit can do."

In "My Utmost For His Highest," Oswald Chambers had these enlightening words:

"'...do not worry about your life....' Don't take the pressure of your provision upon yourself. It is not only wrong to worry, it is unbelief; worrying means we do not believe that God can look after the practical details of our lives, and it is never anything but those details that worry us.

"Have you ever noticed what Jesus said would choke the Word He puts in us? Is it the devil? No - 'the cares of this world' (Matthew 13:22). It is always our little worries. We say, 'I will not trust when I cannot see' - and that is where unbelief begins. The only cure for unbelief is obedience to the Spirit.

"The greatest word of Jesus to His disciples is ABANDON."

As a former pastor I can attest that financial problems have definitely taken a toll on congregations and pastors. As the article states, without unemployment benefits ministers are hit extra hard.