I have been on a journey like Haggard's. My sin was adultery while I was a pastor. It has been 13 years since that time. I don't think I can pastor again. After a time of bitterness, wandering and finally getting back on solid spiritual ground, I am trying to minister in other ways than the pastorate.

I think Haggard has spurned some good advice to come back . The pride factor usually accompanies a fall, and can lead one back to where he should not be...at least not this soon.

Sheer
From what I see in the Word, any man taking a "position" of "scriptural authority" is of itself "dancing with the devil".
Matt. 23:1-8; and others.

This is one of the key reasons the institutionalized form of church has such a high percentage of positioned leadership scams going on. I doubt any church has functioned without multiple occurrences. It is made to look nice and normal, but it nullifies so many of Jesus commands. Matt. 15:1-9

It is amazing to me how many leadership crashes there are around this nation and no one questions the position driven institutionalized system itself. It's as if the system itself is deemed "inspired by God", just like the Catholics do with all their praying to Mary, etc. added in. Haggard is a systemic wake up call to the church, along with thousands of other scams, yet few are listening. Satan's trap continues to work keeping the saints in severe mediocrity.

Well, I think his comment about incorporating speaks volumes about his reasons for returning to ministry. Why on earth wouldn't he just incorporate or heaven forbid just count the money as income?

He formed a church to shelter money.

If he is a "pastor" of a church he is entitled to many lucrative tax breaks, like housing allowances and the like.

He is, and has always been, driven by money, fame, and power. He is going back into "ministry" to purse the same.

Thanks Ted. Thanks for making us all look bad.

Lest we forget this man used his spiritual authority to sexually abuse at least two men.

While I am thankful that my brother in Christ has gotten his spiritual feet back under him and his salvation is secure, I do no believe he should be back in pastoral ministry.

Not all sins are equal and when a pastor sins so publicly and personally against his flock as Ted has he become disqualified from future pastoral ministry. But Ted doesn't want to hear this. I think, after seeing his interviews, documentaries, and hearing him speak that he is very bitter, angry, and rebellious towards any spiritual accountability. We should not forget that he was given a pathway of restoration from the leadership of the church he harmed. He walked away from it.

I pray the best for Ted but the pastorate is too valuable, too important and too pure to be entrusted to him again. Of course Ted doesn't care about this view, or any other that confronts him about his disqualification. While he should be considered a brother in Christ he should not be allowed to pastor again. The Church is too valuable.

Well, so what does restoration look like? The previous posts all seem to have an idea; never possible, decades of work, or not taking tax breaks now that he has sinned. I would prefer to not impugn Mr. Haggard’s motives, actions, or even his current start up.

I am studying through Exodus right now and came across a verse that really spoke to me.

Ex 22:9 "For every breach of trust, {whether it is} for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for clothing, {or} for any lost thing about which one says, 'This is it,' the case of both parties shall come before the judges; he whom the judges condemn shall pay double to his neighbor.

It was possibly a theft, but in the community of Israel it was an issue of “breach of trust.” The American Church creates, celebrates, and then exalts celebrity pastors. The American Church forms and sustains Mega-Churches across the country which only enables such failures to continue to take place. There is no accountability, no community, no relationship in which to sustain right living when you are only gauged as right when you are successful and the church is growing. It is a world of CEO leaders and not pastors…what is to be expected from this as a direction of ministry? Breach of trust…?

I grieve for Mr. Haggard and his wife. I do not lay the blame upon him alone though. His breach of trust was only natural when the whole of the American Church is not any different. All the current data only points to the fact that we have just as many divorces, just as many men and women addicted to porn, and any other sin which you may mention at issue in the Church that is found outside of the community of Christ. Like Obama becoming president of the US, Mr. Haggard returning to the pulpit is the result of folks putting him there. If there was no congregation, there would be no church for him to pastor…but, the Church is sick and in need of healing.

"....lucrative tax breaks like housing allowances..." HA HA HA! Methinks someone must not recieve such "lucrative" benefits, lest he see how truly "lucrative" they are! HA HA HA!

I think the scriptures show many people who were called by God and who failed miserably. I wonder if any of us can stand on our own merits. Do we need the grace of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ? Rather than comment about someones ability or worthiness to serve in the kingdom we should pray for grace and God's power to be poured out on us as the church so we can build one another up. It's when we are together united by His Spirit, loving one another that the world will know we are his children. The opposite is also true.

Amen and Amen to you R. White. It's no wonder the church is so ineffective. We don't extend the mercy and grace of Christ to each other and the unbelieving world sees that. They know that if we don't accept our own who fail and sin, we will never accept them. The greatest tradgedy of the church today is the way we treat our own who are wounded and broken. I for one am sick of those who pontificate from their ivory towers...come down where Christ served. He was called "a friend of sinners".

Let his Christian community, including the leaders over him, decide his fitness for ministry in his tradition and context.

If he doesn't have an embodied tradition (like - gasp! - a denomination) or anyone with authority over him, then other Christian communities can withdraw fellowship from him for refusing church discipline and make that known publicly.

But wait...all this talk about discipline, accountability, authority...sounds curiously like "institutional religion."

Hmm.

Maybe institutions DO have a role after all, like protecting the vulnerable from potential wolves like Haggard, and protecting potential wolves like Haggard from themselves.

@Tim - To quote Bishop N.T. Wright, "Structure ain't everything, but no structure ain't nothing."

@Sam, you need to read the next quarter (or more) of the Bible. On Jesus' next return, He will be called the JUDGE of sinners, and He warned over and over again "to go and sin no more". He said "The road is narrow and few find it." If you think He is going to be all jolly, jolly on His next return, maybe you should read about Sodom and Gomorrah, and multiply it by eternity. Read after Revelation chapter 3, when the churches are no longer mentioned (and are probably raptured), and see what awaits the unrepentant nonbelievers. Funny, how nobody likes that part mentioned. God's wrath is actually mentioned more than God's love in the Bible. You need to actually read it all.

Abraham whored out his own wife...TWICE.
David..we know his story...
Adam...what a screw up...
Isaac...bad dad, bad husband too
Jacob...what a doozy he turned out to be.
Samuel...great ministry, bad parent too.
Samson, Hezekiah, Jehosaphat, Josiah, Paul, Peter, and on and on...

Athanasius was described as a pillar of the church AND possessing all the attributes of the heathen.

Thank God after his millionth exile and ejection from ministry we still have Trinitarian theology as the fruit of his great work...

It might not be the case, but maybe, just maybe, we see a man who has come face to face with the deep ongoing character of his failures and sin AND FROM THAT failure is uniquely positioned to be used of God to care for the broken, bind up wounds and bring hope to people...not as some expert professional christian with all the answers (i.e. Haggard in his first incarnation), but as a fellow learner, a companion in the real struggles of life who has a partner and friend like no other in the person of his wife.

Maybe, together, they can be agents of healing for marriages that seems unsalvageable....

just maybe...

THAT would be awesome. and time will tell.

UrL - you state that ending the restoration process was with the mutual agreement of his advisers. Not so, according to one of those advisers - H.B. London.
Everything about this seems too quick, a little shady and totally driven by Ted Haggard. Since Ted is a proven "user of people" this is covered in red flags.

It is good that Ted Haggard is back. I don't see why the church has such a double standard when it comes to the congregants and the church leaders. Folks - we are all called to be priests. We will have leaders above us, but it is not like we can hold a completely different standard for them and for the rest of us.

Ted Haggard and his family went through a very difficult time because of his many faults. They have suffered through it and I don't see why they cannot come back and start ministering again.

Or is forgiveness and restoration only for you?

I think it would be beneficial if those who are condemning Ted Haggard now took a hard look at themselves and their lives - for by whatever standard you judge him, you will be judged.

I am not saying what he did was right. It was absolutely wrong. But a man can turn from his evil ways and God is more than willing to forgive and restore. Who are we to decide otherwise?

Only after we parse out the difference between justice for Ted and safety for the Church can we offer viable input. The justice for Ted is between God and Ted. That is not the issue. The safety for the Church is another matter. That is the paramount concern. There is little doubt that some of the former accountability overseers (appointed by Ted) handled at least a few things poorly - but lest we judge them, we must understand the enormity of the shock they encountered when trying to deal with this. That being said, who should make the decision as to whether Ted should return to the most important function in the universe, the pulpit? While there are several possibilities as to who should be involved in this process, we know who should not make this decision alone and without protective oversight - Ted.

I don't see why the church has such a double standard when it comes to the congregants and the church leaders.

because scripture does.

i am not sure whether i get absolutely disgusted at haggard because he was such a hyprocrite, or simply because he's such a reflection of me...

-mr

Right now I'm cheering for the Haggards who are clearly demonstrating the power of FORGIVENESS!!! There is nothing in his previous, tawdry behavior with which I agree. However, I bless them both for revealing the miracle of faith that allowed them both to hold on to what was precious and valuable in their relationship ... then forgive!

How sad that more of the Christian church does not show by its actions -- individually and collectively -- a behavior that the Bible clearly requires and expects of every true believer: FORGIVENESS! Simultaneously, too many Christians "offer" forgiveness of sins to any "unbeliever" but somehow cannot tap into the power of the Risen Christ to offer that same forgiveness even -- again and again -- to every believer! Sadly, too, many church "leaders," evangelists, or just bible-thumping politicians would rather wallow in THE SIN OF THEIR INABILITY TO OFFER FORGIVENESS which means they have not truly experienced God's own forgiveness in their own souls. If so, they couldn't hold it in!

I find this to be a fascinating story. I currently pastor a church whose founding pastor stepped down after an inappropriate relationship with a congregant was discovered - that was 5 years ago. The church plummeted in numbers and is just now showing signs of growth and new life. I think Haggard has been humbled and broken by his experience and will have a great ministry reaching others whose private lives have crashed down around them

I'm a follower of Christ in the city of Colorado Springs. While I believe that people can go to God in repentance and find complete forgiveness as well as be restored to ministry, I struggle that he is starting a church here.
Ted has done irreparable damage to the name of Christ and the church in our city. Prudence should tell him to go away ... to stay out of the spot light ... to quit calling press conferences ... and to care more about the mess he is creating than himself.

Like pretty much everyone here that's not decrying the institutional church, I don't think he has any business as a pastor... I certainly don't like the sound of "St. James Church" not being a church. Even if I thought Ted might be ready to become a pastor again or I didn't know his past, that part alone would make my decision. Maybe if he had called it Haggard Ministries I wouldn't have such a bad taste in my mouth; that "church" was founded as a lie.

However, I have definite leanings toward non-institutional worship/ministry. Among other such tenets, I believe we are all called to be priests although I'm not doing very well at stepping up myself. I also believe in church discipline, although I don't even know how a congregation could correctly implement those convictions and I attend a congregation which doesn't observe either set (except that it is thankfully very supportive of any congregants who wish to minister).

To conclude my rather long post, both Ted and the church have their own issues. I don't think Ted has any business as a pastor. I wouldn't touch his "ministry" with a ten-foot pole and would warn anyone else away. Technically this is how we should treat any congregant who commits such severe sin (1 Cor 5:9-13) but especially the teachers (James 3:1-2). However, I agree that the church is too hierarchical, although obviously some sort of (de facto) hierarchy is necessary and human nature will always try to formalize and strengthen it.

I find these comments interesting reading and yet I think there is some muddy waters that need to be addressed. Forgiveness is not the same thing as restoration or reconciliation. Forgiveness is the act of letting go of one's "right" to a pound of flesh, it is allowing God to be the one who sets the scales straight. Forgiveness is not the same thing as saying what the person did was alright, nor is it saying that this person should again have access to the same position or type of situation, nor is it saying that the person should be able to avoid or negate the consequences for their actions. Reconciliation and restoration require steps beyond the initial act of forgiving -- repentence, amends, accepting responsibility and a great deal of humility. And sometimes all the king's horses and all the king's men cannot make things go back to what they were before; sometimes things, like public and pastoral trust, cannot be put back together totally.

If he's interested in actual service, perhaps Mr. Haggard would be better off serving out of the limelight and focusing on the least, last and lost rather than recreating another public position for himself and his time might be better spent than public speaking engagements and media events.

I think there's a lot of people who've commented on this article who've been awful critical, unkind, & UNFORGIVING of this man. You don't know the degree of restoration he has or hasn't gone through. So before you judge him, take a look at your own lives first!! I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences for sin & our decisions, but who of us should be the judge on whether he's ready to serve in ministry again. I'm not a complete fan of Ted Haggard either or some of his views, but it's time for people to back off this man and stop acting like a pack of wolves. Whether or not you like it, he IS forgiven in God's sight & we all should be supportive of that.

Here's the whole epidemic problem: "Pastor" is not something you are; it is something you do. It requires no platform or rows of pews. It is not dependent on performance over passivity. The sooner we get out of this paradigm of 1-1-52 in a 24-7-365 world, the more that will be accomplished for the Kingdom where widespread mutual transformation has a chance.

I am presently leading a church whose pastor fell for sexual sin. If and when he returns to ministry is not up to me or any of his critics. It is entirely God's decision. If God calls him back into ministry who can say it isn't right. What better example of God's grace that to restore a fallen pastor. However if a pastor was to renter the ministry prematurely or for selfish reasons then he would again abuse his position and will probably fall again. what we build with our own hands will surely fall. What we let God build for us will last. it Ted Haggard is reentering the ministry just to further his own desire then he will be found out. If God has called him back then as long as he stays submitted to God then all is well. Pastors are men and men fail. Put your faith in God.

100% agreed Jeff. Really great comment.

I'm rooting for Ted Haggard, and hope that he has put the problems of his past behind him. He has an amazing wife and family that are now fully aware of his struggles with sin and shame and will be there to help him stay out of trouble in the future. If he's willing to be accountable to them and to others who have total access to his heart and life, then we should all hope for his success.

Obviously, it was right and loving to remove Ted from his previous position at New Life Church back in 2006 when he was so obviously bound by sin's power. But I wish there could have been a system in place that could have eventually restored him back to leadership at New Life Church after a lengthy, transparent restoration process. I believe it would have demonstrated to a nation of gossip-hungry onlookers the redemption, forgiveness, and restoration of our God. I know that many in that church were hurt by Ted, but I believe a transparent restoration process that succeeded in restoring him back as Senior Pastor of NLC would have been a healing experience for all involved. The chosen path, however, will leave many issues unresolved perhaps for a lifetime and will trap large numbers of people in resentment that they may never escape.

We must learn to deal with the wounded healers among us as God does-within the context of the local community of faith. God doesn't reject us when we fail. He calls us back to His heart that we've abandoned and surrounds us with love and support to restore us. His gifts and callings are without repentance and there is nothing in scripture that says he is now disqualified from fulfilling that call once again now that he has received the help that he desperately needed.

God loves Ted and all of those who, like Ted, have followed their own way into depravity. We are all capable of anything that Ted has been guilty of and should be hesitant to throw stones.

I certainly pray that none of us who pass judgment on another man's life as if we actually knew him or the truth of the entire situation (we don't)will ever have to face such a crisis in our own lives. It was said above that Ted's pride might lead to a fall, but what about the pride that leads us to offer public commentary on another man's failures as if we know his heart and motives? Where will that lead us?

"Brothers,if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted." Galatians 6:1

Does "restoration" mean that he is restored to his former position as a pastor, or that he has been restored to the Body of Christ as a member who has repented? I forgive him unconditionally; I can be reconciled to him (had I actually had a personal friendship with him, which I don't); I believe he should be restored to full fellowship with the Body of Christ. Restored to the pulpit? I'm not sure. This was an incredibly serious breach of trust on his part.

Perhaps Kim Lewis is right: perhaps he should seek a job ministering out of the spotlight, where he is accountable to spiritual authorities, where it is less tempting to become enthralled with one's power.

I don't know Haggard or what led to his actions, so I'm not pointing the finger and saying he was prideful or not. Just observing that power can corrupt, and being in a pastoral position (especially with little/no checks and balances in place) is a position of power.

This is very difficult. I would like to see if there is true repentance and admitting what he did was wrong. I do believe he is placing himself into a position that will be harmful to himself and his family.

There are many ways to minister. Personally, I would have difficulty going to his "church". But again, the list of the Old Testament characters, does give food for thought.

Chapter and verse that says he can't return to ministry, please.

The question the entire Ted Haggard scandle asks is "After a sexual moral failure can a person ever be restored to the pastorate?"

The goal of church discipline should be to draw one to repentance and therefore restoration to their relationship with the Lord.

Does 3 years of no ministry, intense counseling and no known moral failures sufficient to restore the person to their former caling? If not what would be a good criteria?

The good folks who distinguish between 1. forgiveness and 2. restoration to a position of leadership in the church need to keep playing that tune. That's what gets confused by nearly everyone in this discussion. Yes, let's love him. That's how the world will know we're disciples, said Jesus, NOT by our restoring someone to pastoral ministry (John 13:34-35).
I'd say the team Ted agreed to have restore and counsel him are the only ones in the position to answer the questions Skye Jethani's article asked. If he refuses accountability to them, that says it all about restoration to ministry.

My understanding of the "restoration team" was that it was forced upon the Haggards by the overseers of NLC and that the men on the "team", with the exception of Tommy Barnett, didn't actually have much direct interaction with Ted and Gayle personally in the years that followed. Men who had longstanding, deep relationships with them would probably have been a better choice. The Southern Baptist pastor who originally licensed and ordained Haggard refused to withdraw his credentials and has said all along he should one day be restored to active ministry after an appropriate restoration period. In order for accountability to be genuine, it must flow from heartfelt relationship in which both parties are committed to the process for the rest of their lives. That was not the case in the situation in question.

Where in scripture do we see a distinction between our relationship with God and public ministry? When you are called to that life they are one in the same. Obviously, we should not neglect spiritual disciplines and grow lazy in our personal walk with God, but when God calls someone to ministry they are called for the rest of their lives. While someone may be disqualified in the eyes of the people he/she has disappointed, God has never disqualified anyone who is committed to seeking pursuing righteousness from this point forward.

I believe God's heart for fallen ministers is complete and total restoration to the original position whenever possible. That way, everyone involved has a chance to forgive, heal, and move forward in relationship together.

So how much money is Haggard brining in from speaking engorgements? That's the part I find disturbing.

"Pastor" is not something you are; it is something you do.

i think it was mentioned as something 'given' to people, a la spiritual gifts?...

as to the 'chapter and verse' request: you have a bible. look up the descriptions of elders and deacons. their is no similar description of 'congregants' in the bible.

and my understanding was that haggard's 'restoration' team didn't have much of their direction heeded early on.

sadly, a lot of out-of-the-pastorate ministers find they are considered to have few worldly marketable skills.

here we see haggard using one of his: fund-raising...

-mr

You're right, I do have a bible, I don't see where in the qualifications of an elder there is any proscription to return to ministry. There is no description of removal either.

Those lists relate to qualifications with regard to selection...not discipline once selected.

@Sheer,

Re: Matt. 18:9

Maybe...intriguing suggestion too...
I'll be chewing on it.

What part of "L I A R" do we not understand?

Fred- What part of "judge not" do we not understand?

"Brothers,if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted." Galatians 6:1

"John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us." But Jesus said, "Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. For the one who is not against us is for us." Mark 9:38-40

Casey

"@Tim - To quote Bishop N.T. Wright, "Structure ain't everything, but no structure ain't nothing."

Maybe you and N.T. Wright think that institutionalized, position driven structure is the only kind of structure available to God's people. It is a common false assumption to think that no institutional structure means no structure at all. Such thinking demonstrates spiritual inability to understand much of what is said by Jesus and the other NT writers regarding Jesus design on relationships. It is quite common for men like N.T. Wright who have spent their lives studying the Bible and writing books on the Bible, still do not understand much of it. I'll take the words of Jesus I listed above over brother Wrights words.

@Tim,

My brother, "institution" simply means "organized." Where two or three are gathered, institution is present. When two or three are gathered in Christ's name, Christian institution is present - along with Christ. Every small group has a leader, chosen or not.

Jesus appointed twelve apostles to lead in his absence, formally recognized in Scripture as "The Twelve."

Throughout the letters of Paul, there is a call for order and structure. Paul vigorously defends apostolic authority. Paul describes four roles of leadership within the Christian community as the gifts Christ has given his people. Leadership is Jesus' gift to his people.

I'm not sure what non-structural "relational" structures you're advocating. I would add that the only occasions when there is anything resembling a communal decision-making process in the Bible (that comes to mind) is the Jerusalem Council in Acts.

I appreciate the vigorous discussion, though I doubt we'll convince one another to give up our convictions. My position may have some flaws. I have much to learn. Perhaps others overhearing us will learn from our insights and missteps.

Institutional in regards to church means far more than organized. It means pyramid, top-down, chain of command oriented relationships. Any other design is considered non-structural and disorganized. If you think Jesus chose "the twelve" to be the top of a pyramid, then you do not understand Jesus own words. (I gave the references above.) Everything Paul said with "apostolic authority" must be interpreted in light of Jesus own words. If the Jerusalem counsel is the only communal dynamic you see for decision making, then you need to take off your pyramid driven glasses and read the NT again. I used to read it all just like you do, but not any more. A saw and experienced the arrogance and pride, the servanthood leadership lip service, and saints who love to outsource their spiritual responsibilities to hired experts. I thank God He helped me wake up to the truth.

Haggard and the thousands just like him in sexual perversion, are only the tip of the iceberg. Church corruption below the tip that nullifies the commands of God for the sake of tradition and is all considered good and godly, has horrendous results on the household of faith.

Ted, how does one determine whether it is actually God leading a fallen pastor back into ministry? What about the requirements for elders and deacons found in the pastoral epistles of the NT? How do they apply in the Ted Haggard situation? Forgiveness is one thing. Certainly, it would be wrong to deny a fellow sinner forgiveness, but it is one thing to forgive a fellow sinner and restore him to fellowship upon repentance. It is quite another to restore him to a position of authority and leadership over others, once he has violated that sacred trust. This is a problem that affects church leadership in all varieties of churches, those with a formal hierarchy and those without.

This is why I don't like organized religion. Seriously, the longer men like this are in charge, the more I scream 'Pharisee! Get off my side, you liar!'

I have no problem with anyone who is honest about struggles or doubts or failings, past or present, be they in the ministry or not. We all are human. However we all must know our boundaries and paths we should not travel. Addicts cannot use. Alcoholics cannot drink. Those who abuse chidren should not teach Sunday school or work in the nursery. Someone who has a history of embezzeling should not be the CFO.

Too many churches are stuck in dysfunctional thinking because there isn't 'that one verse' to proof-text for what we're looking for. Well, there's a whole lot Jesus didn't talk specifically about either because he saw that everything in life was connected. How we act at home is how we act in Sunday.

This whole 'restoration' idea is a bunch of nonsense. It's like telling me I'll never relapse again, that I've completed 'restoration' and now I'm shiny and perfect and whole again. If I live with that control mentality, I'll start lying to myself all over again and that's how people like us get started.

The Church needs to remember yes, forgive, but don't be naive in your forgetfulness. Don't let wolves feed the children for it would be better if a millstone to be hung round his neck.

I hope he knows what he is doing and isn't out of pride or greed or because he doesn't know how to do anything else.

Oh, body of Christ. I grieve for you.

Satan loves when we can't help one another to righteous conclusions for fear of being seen as judgmental. Self-righteousness and condemnation silence our voices and keep us isolated with disturbing and confusing issues that are difficult to navigate.

Restoration is different from forgiveness. YES. The church at large has a lot to learn about both. YES, especially when dealing with our leaders. Leaders are men and are not perfect. YES. Leaders CAN be restored to the body AND to ministry after failures of all kinds. The degree of the sin SHOULD affect the timeline and every part of the restoration process. We want to figure restoration out and do it the same everywhere and it just can't be that way. God gave us His Spirit to take His principles and apply them to what is going on. He gives wisdom.

Church, in restoration it is righteous to put things in order: restoration of the sinner to God, restoration of spouses to one another, restoration within the family unit as children are affected by the sin, restoration to the fellowship of believers, restoration to ministry in probably an adapted way since it would be good to be questioning a lot of things and asking why you were doing what you were doing to begin with. Why am I IN ministry? Refining should come.

Churches should help one another be prepared to respond to exposed sin. We should be the best at dealing with this. We NEED to be examining the expectations we allow to be built around our leaders. We need to lead the way in authenticity and lives lived in the light. We need to embrace discipline and submit to one another in love. We need to know the depths of humility and a full recognition of the rampant damage of sin in our lives that the grace of God's sacrifice may be magnified and His redemptive power seen in our world and Himself truly worshiped in our churches.

So much to say. My church is walking through something similar right now. My own spouse and I have come through our own mess. There's pain and power and holiness as you walk through both forgiveness and restoration. And there's trust being built back over time. "Hear words. Trust behavior." Our church is sad right now that our pastor did not choose the restoration offered him. In my opinion it was rightly ordered restoration, truly seeking his good before seeking what he could continue to offer the church in the position of pastor.

Don't shy away from the conversation. We desperately need these conversations. Christ said the world would know us by our love. May we rise to the challenge in the hardest of situations.

I separately want to recommend a book I'm walking through right now called "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen. It exposes the inner workings of false spiritual authority (systems and the leaders themselves) and brings wisdom and compassion for both the devoured sheep and the false shepherds, helping people know what to look for in a healthy system and helping the church to come out of blind submission.

Many of the opinions that come out in our conversation are concern for others that Tedd might minister to. We should be concerned. To ignore and just say God will expose him again if needed is to shirk a responsibility. If Tedd is not in submission to other authority right now it might be good for the church at large to raise enough flags that any sheep following him are at least alerted. Like Paul might write in a letter to the church of a city, it is understandable that other concerned leaders might write on the internet to the city where he lives and warn of a leader who might lead them astray with false or distorted teaching. It should be believers being concerned about this and not leaving him alone and just letting him do his own thing. We cannot forsake love. Not toward Tedd nor toward others who might be spiritually crippled by following him. He should be challenged in love and given the opportunity to demonstrate humility, submission, and God's power on His life. There should be fruit of repentance and we should be able to spiritually discern the truth in what he says.

It's WORK, folks. We can't simplify this from any angle.

"He jests at scars who never felt a wound."

Such criticism cannot be brought against Gordon MacDonald for feeling compassion for Ted Haggard. Gordon is no stranger to failure and public humiliation spurred by those terrible moments of long ago in his own life. In 11/06/2006 CT issue, he wrote:

"I am heartbroken for Ted Haggard and his wife and family. I cannot imagine the torture they are living through at this very moment. Toppled from national esteem and regard in a matter of hours, they must adjust to wondering who their real friends are now. They have to be asking how these events - known by the world - will affect their children. Mrs. Haggard will not be able to go the local Wal-Mart without wondering who she may bump into when she turns into Aisle 3 (A reporter? A church member? A critic?)...

"The travel, the connections, the interviews, the applause of the congregation, the organizational power, the perks and privileges, the honor: gone! The introit to people of position and power: gone! The opportunity to say an influential word each day into the lives of teachable younger people: gone! The certainty that God has anointed one for such a time as this: gone?

"And what will grow each day is the numbing realization of regret and loss. In time they will be approached by people who will say in one way or another, 'I used to trust you, but what you've done has made me very angry.' 'You've turned my son away from the gospel.' 'I thought I knew you, but I guess I didn't.'

"It will be a long time before either of the Haggards feel safe again. Suffering over this will last most of a lifetime even after some sort of restoration is rendered. How I wish this could all be lifted from them. Perhaps there will come a day down the pathway when there will be some kind of return to influence. But right now it is - or should be - a long way in the distance."

Such was a picture of Ted's future - so grim, it looked; so irredeemable, it sounded.

Here's a knotty point. Who is worse between the two : a Jesus' disciple who admitted to purchasing methamphetamines and the services of a male prostitute, or a Jesus' disciple who blatantly denied he knew Him? The former was Ted; the latter was Peter. He fled in the moment of crisis; so miserably he failed that he went out into the night and wept bitterly (Luke 22:62).

Yet, how compassionate the risen Christ was to Peter! The angel gave the women at the tomb special instructions to let Peter know that He was risen. Jesus took Peter aside to allow him the opportunity to reaffirm his love and commitment (John 21:15-17). The risen Lord also chose Peter as His primary spokesman on the day of the Pentecost.

Yes, indeed. We have a God of second chances.

But, then, that still leaves a heap of questions, one of which is: Why?

One answer perhaps can be gleaned from Dave Branon's story he narrated in today's reflection of "Our Daily Bread."

Dave stood one day before the congregation after the funeral of 14 years old Kristin, a vivacious teen who loved Jesus and lived for Him. "Daddy, help me" were her last words as she struggled to breathe. A strep infection attacked her body, and she died suddenly - just 2 days after saying she didn't feel well.

Why was Dave there in the middle of such a sorrowful picture? In man's timing, Dave was there because he was scheduled to speak at the congregation long before Kristin died. In God's timing, Dave was there because he went through a similar loss of his own daughter a few years ago. God chose him to be the "qualified comforter."

The most comforting of David's psalms were squeezed from his life by suffering, and if Paul had not been given "a thorn in the flesh" (2 Cor 12:7), we would have missed much of the heartbeat of tenderness that resonates through so many of his letters.

I hope and pray there will come a day down the pathway when Ted would stand before a congregation as a "qualified comforter," who by virtue of his sufferings today could naturally ward off tomorrow's criticisms such as: "He jests at scars who never felt a wound."

Nathan, it's just a maybe...but, what a hopeful one!

Sara, well said! Restoration to the body, yes. Restoration to a position of authority in an area of moral weakness? Definitely not! That a Pastor who formerly abused his authority would seek to be restored or accept restoration to another similar role after such a failure is a serious indicator that he has not truly repented or is in delusion about his vulnerability to temptation. I can't help but be reminded of the well publicized fall of Jimmy Swaggart in the 1980s. He refused the very reasonable discipline of his denomination and instead became a free agent "evangelist" because supposedly the organization he founded couldn't survive without him. It has since faded into relative obscurity (if it still exists--I haven't checked). I was a short term missionary in Europe with the campus ministry of the same denomination at the time, and we were the laughingstock of those we sought to reach because of his very public disgrace. To disillusioned European university students, it was one more proof of the religious hypocrisy that has helped to make western Europe one of the most arid mission fields in the world!

There is one thing that I am not seeing in any of there comments. Where is God in all of this. All of the responses that I have read have merit but the point is this, if God wants this church to succeed He will make it so by the power of His Holy Spirit, and His word. If he doesn't, the church will fail. We need to let God do His job. In reality, if one person truly gets born again, from a preacher who has fallen, is it worth it? It is God who does the work,not us weak human beings. I will pray for Ted, not that he get any glory but that God gets it all.

Jude 8In the same way, these people—who claim authority from their dreams—live immoral lives, defy authority, and scoff at supernatural beings.£ 9But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels,£ did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, “The Lord rebuke you!” (This took place when Michael was arguing with the devil about Moses’ body.) 10But these people scoff at things they do not understand. Like unthinking animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and so they bring about their own destruction. 11What sorrow awaits them! For they follow in the footsteps of Cain, who killed his brother. Like Balaam, they deceive people for money. And like Korah, they perish in their rebellion.
12When these people eat with you in your fellowship meals commemorating the Lord’s love, they are like dangerous reefs that can shipwreck you.£ They are like shameless shepherds who care only for themselves. They are like clouds blowing over the land without giving any rain. They are like trees in autumn that are doubly dead, for they bear no fruit and have been pulled up by the roots. 13They are like wild waves of the sea, churning up the foam of their shameful deeds. They are like wandering stars, doomed forever to blackest darkness.
17But you, my dear friends, must remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ said. 18They told you that in the last times there would be scoffers whose purpose in life is to satisfy their ungodly desires. 19These people are the ones who are creating divisions among you. They follow their natural instincts because they do not have God’s Spirit in them.
20But you, dear friends, must build each other up in your most holy faith, pray in the power of the Holy Spirit,£ 21and await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will bring you eternal life. In this way, you will keep yourselves safe in God’s love.
22And you must show mercy to£ those whose faith is wavering. 23Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others,£ but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives.£

Yawn...seriously. Have we nothing else to do but argue about whether one of our fallen brothers should be trusted?

I am reminded of two things - (1) to his own master Ted will be accountable [Romans 14.4] (2) aren't we all smart enough to choose the leaders we follow?

I am not an expert, but I have been taught that prophetic "words" (God speaking something) need to be weighed and judged based on several criteria:
1. Consistency with the Word of God (written)
2. Consistency with established church "norms" (with apologies to those with non-Institutional Church leanings)
3. Consistency with what God is doing (someone has a "word" that we're supposed to have ecstatic praise in the middle of a time of intense repentance)
So MY question would be "What did TH hear from God about what he is doing, and has it been vetted against those criteria?" If a 15 year old says that God is calling him to pastor, that may be an accurate word, but the timing might not be "now"...which is input into the decision process that is needed and would be supplied by more mature believers.

When a person repents, gets counseling, and whatever is involved in the process, then yes it is time . Reconciliation has taken place and on he knows in his heart if he is ready. God forgives so we to must let him begin anew never to bring anything up again.bogs

When I was younger I went through a very dark time. For six months I did not identify as a follower of Jesus at all, because of the manipulation and deceit of another Christian leader (who is still in Christian leadership today).
God restored me and I am now in Christian ministry. I went through many emotions to deal with my situation but if there is one conclusion I have come to it is this: God uses and continues to use sinful people (including me) but our sin is not justified by God's use of us. God's grace is beyond our comprehension.
This Haggart bloke may tick all the boxes for why he should not do what he is doing and he will continue to sin and fail, yet God will use him.
Thank God for his grace as otherwise he wouldn't use me.

To answer Chris' second question:
Aren't we all smart enough to choose the leaders we follow?

No. Look at the scandals in the Catholic church. Priesthood is a holy sacrament, one of many, that is upheld by the papacy and can only be broken by the Pope. It is a holy calling from G-d. Many of us feel the same way about the ministry, that once an individual is "called" that that is your occupation for life, whether it is to serve youth or adults or children or in the mission field (abroad)... whatever. To leave the ministry is to receive a dishonorable discharge. It is shame. It is to admit defeat, failure, to admit moral undoing, to accept a "lesser" office. How many pastors or ministers want to tell someone "I used to be in the ministry" and then have to answer all the "why?" questions? It's utter humiliation. No, better to put on a brave face and soldier onward, suppressing past failures and doubts and pressures, even if presently unfit for the position.

Too many of us put those in ministry above us, as worthy of a "higher" calling, not realizing that we too are fellow priests, preachers and teachers with our brothers and sisters, that we too can come along side with them and share burdens. If we forget these truths and rely on others to educate us, never exercising our minds or questioning authority, we can be led astray by some of the most powerful figures in history.

Ultimate power corrupts.

What a time in History as we are seeing the enemy rob so many of being a blessing, for the simple reason we do not understand the love of the Lord. Yes, he is not going to take away the consequences of sin and only God knows the heart of a person. I trust that who ever is caught in a sin is willing to repent and ask the Lord's forgiveness and take up the responsibility of abiding in the Vine, so we can grow into that person that can bring glory to the Lord and our fellowman. That is being a Blessing not disgrace.
What is sin, is a guestion ask down through history? We see, hear, desire, take and if wrong hid. Lord help us all to see who we need to be accountable to, not mankind, but God and then we can wait,watch and see God do abundantly above what we could imagin.
God created the tree of good and evil not to eat from, He also created all the others we could eat from. What are we eating from today, is it not still mostly from the good and evil tree and enjoying it to the greatest degree, regardless of the consequences.
Lord Help me to stay in the vine protected by Your love, mercy and grace so I walk with you moment by moment.
Only time will tell what we are made of,or better yet what kind of fruit we are bearing.
BLessing to all that are going to accept the Lord and those who have been serving the Lord for years.
Let's grow in the Spirit of the Lord becoming more and more liken unto His image. Lets not look back, but keep looking to the return of the Lord.

Who pays this guy to come and speak? When is the church going to stand up and say we welcome you back in BUT YOU ARE NOT WELCOMED BACK IN THE PULPIT/LEADERSHIP! Look I am all about restoration at the foot of the Cross, but restoration to being in leadership again FORGET IT! Everybody RUN! As if pastoring to the marginalized isn't hard enough, then along comes Ted making a mockery of it all.

Forgivenss with a loving heart is the answer. If this is so, then lets forgive and begin to forget.

Pastor Bob

It is clear that the qualifications for church leadership are high. Among other things, an elder must be above reproach, self-controlled, respectable, not a lover of money, and have a good reputaion with those outside the church. Church leadership is not a "right", it is a serious responsibility with eternal consequences. We must strive to have the most qualified in those positions. Others can serve in other ways.
"Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment." James 3:1

To Robert A, June 3, 2010

What does the President have to do with this article? If you think for one minute that President Obama was elected ONLY because of the will of the people, you are sadly mistaken. This was his season. He was appointed and anointed for SUCH A TIME AS THIS.

NKJV – Rom 13:1 – Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

nathan pt 1: I don't see why the church has such a double standard when it comes to the congregants and the church leaders.

nathan pt 2: You're right, I do have a bible, I don't see where in the qualifications of an elder there is any proscription to return to ministry. There is no description of removal either. Those lists relate to qualifications with regard to selection...not discipline once selected.

nathan pt 2 was not implied in nathan pt 1. nathan pt 1 implied that congregants and leaders should be on the same standards. scripture is very clear that they AREN'T, and we risk a lot of damage when we seek to treat them the same.

restoring to the body and restoring to a lead pastoral role are two different things entirely. the entire church 'structure' is an understanding that the church's mission will be in, be among, and be run by humans. and, as such, a legitimate because-we're-humans rule that says when you blow it, you're out, seems highly reasonable.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean there are no opportunities for ministry. i'm chairing my home NA group's meetings this month. i carry a help line for south atlanta. i take a meeting into a treatment facility every other week.

i also have an m. div.

God chooses to work in odd ways, especially with those of us who believe we might be His gift to humanity, or at least a small segment of it...

For what it's worth, I posted some similar questions and concerns about the Ted Haggard situation yesterday at my BeliefNet blog -- and was quite surprised when Ted Haggard himself stopped by to comment.

Here's the link: http://bit.ly/aqBjOQ

His comment posted at 2:09 pm/June 8, with some interesting discussion afterward.

Apologies: I don't generally like this type of come-read-my-blog comment, but I thought the Ur community might appreciate how this discussion is playing out elsewhere in the blogosphere.

Earlier I responded to mikerucker's comment: i also have an m. div.

My response was: so?

Apparently this was seen as a snarky comment and deleted. It was a genuine question. Why is an m.div. relevant to the discussion? Does it mean that his opinion is of more value than someone else's opinion?

I know, why don't we spend lots and lots of time and energy on working through our opinions of some else's salvation, restoration and calls to ministry while people around the world are literally dying in their sin, from their addictions and in their abuse? What a ridiculous suggestion and yet here we are. This is yet another circus DISTRACTION for the North American Church to keep her eyes off of her real call. Let God take care of Mr. Haggard...we've got more important things to do.

Paul murdered Christians and we are quoting him in our judgement of Ted Haggard??? Does anyone else think there is something WRONG with this picture? Just glad it was my God who COMPLETELY and totally redeemed and washed my sins away, restoring and forgiving me and not this group of Christians. Apparently there is something that is too hard for God...Paul can be forgiven for murdering Christians and go on to become the greatest minister that ever lived, but God cannot completely forgive and restore Ted Haggard to ministry???...hmmm I'm just saying...throw me on the mercy of God and not my fellow believers...Meanwhile, the world is going to hell while we decide if we are going to forgive Ted Haggard and allow him to preach the gospel again...God help us.

john: Earlier I responded to mikerucker's comment: i also have an m. div.My response was: so?

john, my relating my (ironic pe)degree (sp) was not meant to imply a higher standing or more extensive knowledge. the point i was making was this: ministry does not have to be in front of people, nor does it need to be paid, nor does it need to be in churches.

certainly, we're all judging him here to some degree, but i think there's general agreement that haggard seems to believe his 'ministry' has to be in church leadership.

my point was/is that i've been in church ministry, i have the 'credentials', but because of some life circumstances i'm now being used in other ways that are far removed from the church pulpit.

and as for url pulling 'snarky' comments: trust me, john, you and i are in a boat that's quite full...

I do think that he should be given a second chance to start a new church.This is God's grace.

However, some issues does not seem to be resolved such as same sex orientation. He is covering it up but it will be a thorn at his side.

Gentle Lamb, for me your first suggestion has a little too much of the "innocent as a lamb" about it, but not enough of the "wise as a serpent" to which balance we are exhorted in Scripture. Protecting a brother from further temptation by drawing boundaries around what role he is permitted to take within the larger Body is also an act of grace. We all trust it helps to protect those vulnerable to victimization within the Body, but perhaps fewer of us consider that it also protects the potential perpetrator from further damaging his own soul and relationships with others. Your second comment seems more wise to me.

There is a warfare going on! When are we going to wake up and quit shooting each other? We need to assist those who have been wounded by the enemy, care for those who have experienced friendly fire as well as those who are enduring the painful wound of regret and shame, which occured from self inflicted wounds as a result of being the front lines of ministry.