are you guys still mad over the whole dig in the avatar sermon?

He is also displaying his ignorance about how many people in this world still cook today.

No wonder no one ever opened a restaurant and called it "Ezekiel's Kitchen."

Smells like crap.

is mark giving examples of scatalogical humour, or simply any mention of fecal matter in scripture, because he thinks that's funny in and of itself? While the Eglon story has elements of humour, is he trying to argue that because we think it's funny that feces came out of Eglon, we're allowed to use "potty humour"? Was that the point of the story? And the Ezekiel story is even less funny...seeing as God had a purpose for asking Ezekiel to do this...God wasn't just trying to joke around...
also, is it some sort of dig that my verification words (needed to reduce spam) are "wimping" and "leader"? :)

Uh...hmm...okay, sure, funny.
Now, if he could explain to me...what was funny, because what I read in Judges 3 seems to not make a big deal about "OMG, He was so fat!" type of...er...joke.
All it says to me is that Ehud rammed his dagger (pfft, sword...right, not at twelve inches...now there's where I would see the joke) so deep into the Kings belly that the hilt sank into the wound, and the point came out his back.
And yes, it was unlikely the actual knife stroke killed him, but rather the sepsis from the excrement that was flooding his body from the wound in the intestines.

All around, I think Mr. Driscoll is stretching scriptural credulity a wee bit, and the humor didn't help him.

btw, captcha seems to be chiming in as well. Mine, "Lo piteous"

Mike: The Ehud/Eglon story is considered an example scatological humour as per "The Dictionary of Biblical Imagery" by Leland Ryken, Tremper Longman et al. The book is available to view on google books (pg. 408).

The entry says that the humor over the attendants thinking Eglon was just going to the bathroom is because the story is an example of "slave writing, which "possesses a mocking tone at the expense of an oppressive nation."

The Bible uses all sorts of literary and dramatic forms. As a literature major this says to me that it is truly the greatest Book of all. It maintains its cohesiveness in the midst of the diversity of human authors. This says to me that one Great Mind inspired each author. I think this is the point that Driscoll is making and we should not take him out of context and berate him for pointing out that the Bible even contains humor. Well done Mark!

Oh, come on! There's humor, and then there's ignorance. The two are not related.

Scatological, yes. Humor?

The Eglon story was probably shared and kept in part because it mocked the king. So yeah, there's some humor in it.

The Ezekiel story not so much. Ezekiel immediately objected to cooking over human feces as treyf, and God told him that cow feces will do. (I suspect God was just making sure Ezekiel was paying attention.) But the Ezekiel story is only funny if you find feces to be inherently funny.

The only reason to bring this up is when you're trying to justify your own personal use of, or amusement by, scatological humor. I don't think it needs justification: It's part of the human psyche. When we're presented with something shocking (like being forced to deal with something distasteful or offensive) we laugh as a defense mechanism. We chuckle instead of recoiling. It is the lowest form of humor, but it's still humor.

The question, then, is should Christians try to get laughs and entertain by deliberately shocking or offending people?

"I think this is the point that Driscoll is making and we should not take him out of context and berate him for pointing out that the Bible even contains humor."

And the bible also contains arguments for keeping slaves, concubines, multiple wives, and worshipping false gods...if taken in, or out of context as well, which is what I think Mr. Driscoll has done with the aforementioned examples he supplied.

I just don't see the humor in those passages, except for a piece of cutlery being called a sword, and where he strapped the steak knife at which takes "swinging iron" to a whole new realm of intepretation.
But I will concede that the "slave writing" POV is an interesting point which I will consider valid...after I research it.

I think the overriding point should be that humour has become a staple, a necessity of "good preaching". People expect to be entertained... we live in an entertainment saturated society and most people only remember things if they are made to laugh (ie: commercial producers go to lengths to accomplish this and each year only the funniest commercials are recognized as best).

No humour? No communication. Congregations cry out for entertainment and that's the real crux here.

I am not against humour being used tastefully here and there, but it seems that pastors (especially well known ones) seem to go out of their way to try to be funny - even if it means stretching truths and points.

I looked this up in the Dictionary of Biblical Imagery and didn't find a thing. It is, however almost directly from the NIV Application commentary on Judges by Lawson,

“The scatological satire continues with the comic scene of 3:24-25, in which Eglon’s servants belatedly discover their master’s corpse…The courtiers erroneously assume that their corpulent monarch is taking his leisurely time in relieving himself in the chamber toilet. And the odor from the accidental discharge from the anal sphincter further decoys the guards to tarry while Ehud escapes.” (p.119)

Why not reference that in the sermon? I agree with many of the comments above, that it gives the feeling he is more about justifying something here than he is about a careful exegesis of these two passages. However, I am glad half of what I say doesn't end up on youtube for all to tear apart.

Neither examples is funny. As others have pointed out, it's nothing more than a feeble attempt by driscoll to justify his adolescent preaching. I wonder what verses he uses to justify his teaching that wives must submit to anal and oral sex when they are menstruating or pregnant so as to not put their husbands at risk of infidelity? Maybe next time he'll even stoop to including jokes about menstruation.

Oh my. You know, there are far more worthy ministers for you to write about.

I'm with K. And for every article you do on Mark Driscoll, you ought to feature three articles on dynamic women pastors who are bringing the gospel to their neighborhoods. Or does Out of Ur agree with Driscoll's views?

captcha: ogling and

I just have a question, was this clip of a sermon placed on YouTube by Mark's own church or was this privately done? If this was privately done without church knowledge, then I would take the view that one is simply unable to judge context. However, if this is being put out by Mark's own ministry, then one must wonder what his point is. I agree with Mark's basic theology, but his crass mouth is a puzzle.

K has a valid point, what up with that Url?
Are there any women pastors who can show us how it's done?
I know of one, but she isn't popular in the youtube community, and probably no one has ever heard of her in the greater Christian Community, but our HS pastor has been doing a bang up job of teaching High Schoolers how to be missionaries, and caring about someone other than themselves.

And I'm willing to wager a medium rare porter house steak, and a fine British brown ale that she ain't the only one out there.

btw, captcha "Experts romantic"
Interesting.

Driscoll = blog hits.

Talk about "crass".

Seriously? Out of UR has NOTHING better to discuss than Driscoll's humor AGAIN? We all know what type of humor he likes. So what? It's not my style, mostly because of background and breeding - but so what? I don't go to his church. We could debate all day if he's being immature, but you can't seriously make a biblical case that he's sinning. Find something that actually matters to write about here.

There's nothing wrong with a preacher using humor if he's a naturally funny guy. If he's not, the result will be lame jokes - if he is, it's better he preach out of the personality God has given him than trying to suddenly be all serious all the time.

This blog is under the Leadership Journal portion of CT. Are there really no more worthy and edifying topics than a fourth-grade bathroom-humor spectacle such as this?

Please, please stop focusing on the merely spectacular and get back to some intelligent discussion of what it takes to lead and shepherd and participate in and serve Christ's church.

@John L

but that would require CT to stop talking about Mark Driscoll. Since everything good he does actually offer can be found in any number of lesser known leaders.

"Why did the chicken cross the road?"

In a meeting with his church's elders, Pastor Mark (not a Driscoll) broke the ice with that chicken humor.

A night before, he strained every nerve in looking out for the best way in setting up the meeting, knowing full well the gravity of the agenda - the budget deficit. Though he was aware that such agenda was no laughing matter, he decided to bring humor into play. He felt it was right. He read one study that had found the intellectual benefits of a good laugh as most striking when it comes to solving problem demanding a creative solution. Also, he felt it was safe. For although such humor did not come out of a Philippians 4:8 lovely mind, neither was it hounded by a James 3:8 deadly tongue.

"To actualize its potential," one elder answered the chicken question with Aristotlean tinge.

Sensing the intellectual drift of the humor, another elder countered with Platonic grasp, "For the greater good."

"To get to the other side," a down-to-earth retort elicited chuckles. At this point, Pastor Mark felt the perfect timing had come to throw in the punch line, "To solve the poultry budget deficit." Just then, a disquiet dropped in for they knew what's coming. He took a deep breath, then, delivered the tough job, "We need to solve our church budget deficit which is no chicken feed."

"Ain't chicken; but do we need to do this crap?" It was a "still, small voice" coming from the back, haunting like a basketball's "last-two-minutes-three-points-attempt-secret-set-play' set out by an opposing team that Pastor Mark didn't foresee and prepare for the night before.

"What do you really mean, Mary?" Pastor Mark politely asked the old lady sitting at the last pew predicting a dragged out war of words.

"I mean...see how the lilies of the field grow," she simply said.

After he heard those words, Pastor Mark took his heaviest breath of the day, while riveting his eyes on the old lady. He knew, heart and soul, that though he had the finest form, she had the purest substance.

He thought, he didn't need that chicken joke, after all.