I guess what surprises me about Driscoll's comments is that in order to be as positive as he and the Mars Hill church / movement are about film it seems to me that you have to have a certain equanimity about film messages which is not on display here. You have to be able to discuss them and not just rant against them and categorize them. By not doing that he is coming across as a fundamentalist. In fact in that respect he is being a fundamentalist.

Another point, though: what precisely is "cultural progress" and why is it necessary? Native culture is also culture and I don't see what rationale would say that it is inherently inappropriate or that it must evolve.

After watching Avatar I was depressed. I didn't know exactly why. Maybe this movie showed the sin on both sides. Those not caring for the poor and weak and those not believing in a Creator God but in themselves and science.

I really appreciate the tenor of this post, both in it's irenic take toward Mark Driscoll (who is definitely a lightning rod of opinion) and it's balanced take towards Avatar.

Thanks for offering your thoughts on how we as Christians might thoughtfully reflect on Avatar, Paul!

Really appreicated this balanced and thoughful approch to both the film and Driscoll's approach to it. Maybe a careful analysis of just where films such as this reflect and don't reflect the Christian worldview doesn't preach well these days, but it's sure sorely needed.

Pastor Mark has a tremendous ability to invite polarization like J Frank Norris of years ago. I find that hilarious though troubling.

I actually agree with Pastor Mark here though with an added qualifier: understand the paganism but still go see the movie. By sheltering ourselves from the reality of the world outside our walls we forget that we encounter that world on a routine basis.

Avatar is a good movie...but it is not great. If you spend $500 million on a movie you should at least hire a writer who can develop concepts and produce a good script. The movie fails in its script. Instead of finding a way to better express the attachment with nature the writer(s) punted to pantheism. How limited.

I disagree that it is the "most Satanic movie" I've seen...seriously, have you seen the Smurf's movie? (j/k, The Exorcist is pretty, um, bothersome) I think Pastor Mark was going to a cheap point. But he does this all the time.

Seriously, encourage people to see the movie and then talk about the layers in the movie. Pantheism (or maybe panentheism) is a great thing to review from a biblical perspective. Then talk about the tension of capitalism vs. nature. Talk about the story of how might believes it is right. Talk about the morality of entering a culture to change the culture.

There are many layers to this story.

You are the Church!

I think Pastor Mark's comments were correct and overstated, but American society has proved time and again that people don't listen to you unless you scream and shout about it. You just need to look at the homosexual and same sex marriage movement. They are "succeeding" precisely because they are shouting. People are inundated with information and the most effective way to get heard is to say it loud and often. The understated message gets lost very quickly.

Having said that, I also do believe that the movie is Satanic. The evil one did not force Eve to eat of the fruit, he suggested and insinuated and deceived her into it. To think that Satan takes us by force is not biblical and exactly what he wants us to think. Inch by inch he takes us and before we know it, preachers are getting arrested for share the Word of God in public places.

I see the arguments even here; "it's a harmless movie", "it's fictional", "people don't really believe in a race of blue people".

So yes sheerahkahn, this message is EXACTLY for the church.

My problem with Avatar is simply that there are no nuanced portrayals. At the end, as my 16-year-old-daughter walked out of the theater with me, she said: "Well, Dad, I guess the only good humans are disabled marines, scientists, and female helicopter pilots." Not very PC, but then she's an Asperger's kid and will never be PC. Frankly, I didn't find many layers there.

Here's my thought: All Americans know what we did to the Native Americans. I live in the region where Black Hawk and his Sauk tribe once lived; I've read his autobiography; and I know that the way we treated the Indian tribes was evil. Have we grown past that? If we were to come across a Na'vi culture now, would that encounter play out the way Avatar shows? I don't think so. It's right for us to remember and confess and make restoration. But at the same time, let's acknowledge that we are not quite what we once were as a culture, though we are not yet what we should be.

Still waiting for all those articles on dynamic women pastors who are following the leading of the Holy Spirit and bringing the love of Jesus to their communities...

I agree with the comment that said Avatar lacked nuance. I'd say that was it's fatal flaw, actually. It's one thing to engage a contemporary topic in an artistic medium (I think the movie, V for Vendetta did a pretty good job), but it's another thing to treat your audience like idiots. Cameron pretty much made it so no one could interpret the film as anything else but a propaganda film against recent American military actions. Now I'm not really a supporter of said actions, but Cameron's handling of it was so ham-handed, it was almost embarrassing. When a writer portrays some characters as entirely good and others as entirely evil, it simply doesn't resonate with how people (blue or otherwise) really are.

Actually, lacking nuance may be something that Driscoll and Cameron have in common...

There were at every turn Christians who have stood up for native cultures and enviroments-and for every stupid and evil thing people have done in the name of Christ. But somehow the world will only remember the bad. I do not believe Avatar is Satanic-it does not call out antiGod anywhere and I saw only values which at the very least have a lot of common with true Christianity-the value of life, the value of the community, the respect of elders, the dislike of violence, etc. But it is not a Christian movie either nor did I expect it to be that. It is really important the Christians teach their children the truth about the Church-both the positive and negative-the Christians who stood up against slavery for hundreds of years-and the Christians (primarily for money) who embraced slavery. It is important that we teach them about war -and about peace-and the price they both carry and the terrible dilemmas we often face. If they know the truth, then they can watch a movie like Avatar and not carry some false guilt or simmering hatred that the movie does not be the Christian model we want.

Can I just say that if Avatar was not released in 3D and had all of that hype behind it we would not be having this big of a discussion about it. The movie as a story was not that great. It has been played before (fern gully anyone?) Visually though it was a standard bearer for what movies will be judged against.

However, it has been a big success. So discussions like this are needed and are welcomed. There are worse movies out there than Avatar and I like Mark Driscoll but it is not the most satanic movie ever nor it is the most edifying movie ever. Anyway peace to you all and God bless as the discussion continues.

Yes...

This article is not about "good movie/bad movie." The article is asking a basic question. Is there a Christian basis for social commentary of Cameron's Avatar? Cameron's critique is levied against the destructive and inhumane practices of the invading "dominant culture." This message implies the role of responsibility as well as guilt in a society. Metzger, concedes with Driscoll's critique on pantheism, be he contends that Driscoll is defending the status quo, when he say's Avatar is an attack on the "creation mandate . . . that we shouldn't develop culture."

The problem of course, is that the Western world has used this kind of mantra "creation mandate", "manifest destiny" to justify the kind of atrocities depicted in the film. In essence, Driscoll, rightly discerns the place of pantheism but completely ignores the issues raised concerning justice, stewardship, greed and charity.

Why oh why is it that CT reports every move and every word of Mark Driscoll like National Enquirer reports on Sandra Bullock? We are on Driscoll overload! Take a break for say...the next 10 years! Please, we have had enough.

I think it's a shame that this topic has degenerated into endorsements or denouncements of Pastor Driscoll. I don't mean this in any way but the lightest comparison, but it's a bit like Paul, who's constantly spoken out against because people don't like the way he preaches. Doesn't Pastor Driscoll preach the gospel? Then that's all that matters.

I have to say that I agree with the blog post at least in part; I do think that while Driscoll's critique of the Avatar is justified, he does overlook the value of its meaning (not in its outspoken monism, but it's critique of Western progressivism).

I think it's a shame that this topic has degenerated into endorsements or denouncements of Pastor Driscoll. I don't mean this in any way but the lightest comparison, but it's a bit like Paul, who's constantly spoken out against because people don't like the way he preaches. Doesn't Pastor Driscoll preach the gospel? Then that's all that matters.

I have to say that I agree with the blog post at least in part; I do think that while Driscoll's critique of the Avatar is justified, he does overlook the value of its meaning (not in its outspoken monism, but it's critique of Western progressivism).

People have been talking about pantheism and panentheism a lot in this thread, but in fact those doctrines don't occur in the movie. Pantheism is the belief that God and the universe are the same thing. Panentheism is the belief that the universe is part of God.

The goddess Eywa is certainly the deity of Pandora, but she isn't identified with the planet, much less the universe, by the Na'vi. Since she is the only deity ever mentioned, it appears the Na'vi are monotheists. There's precious little developed theology in the Avatar wiki put up by Cameron.

The humans, when they believe in Eywa at all, believe she is a consciousness based on the neural connections possible between all the different forms of Pandoran life. A remarkable being, but certainly not a cosmic-scale one.

The movie is a collection of homages to other works. There are any number of tales about Westerners "going native" and siding with said natives. The avatar idea comes from "Call Me Joe" by Poul Anderson. The pterodactyline cavalry is from Ann McCaffery's "Dragonrider" series. Uploading minds is a standard trope of the cyberpunk sub-genre of science fiction. The idea of a sapient ecology comes from James Lovelock's Gaia Hypothesis.

The movie is a technical triumph of CGI, with a very simple and unexceptionable moral and one cool line that I can remember.

Christianity does not appear in the movie at all. The movie opposes a purely secular, avaricious materialism against a spirituality with made-up details. The details aren't particularly Christian, but they aren't specially anti-Christian either. At least spirituality is the good guys' side.

"...total blindness to what the Western powers have done and continue to do in our day to indigenous peoples and their habitats globally all in the name of progress."

Paul, could you give three specific examples of this?

Hello, Melody. Thank you for your question. I am sorry for the delayed response, but I have been traveling. I hope to respond more fully in the next few days.

Best wishes,

PLM

Avatar is teeming with metaphors very similar to metaphors in the stories in the biblical texts. Sure details are different but in the long run if you dig down to the root metaphors of the film and many stories in scripture it is amazing to see the similarities. When driscoll was talking about all the satanic and false aspects of the film I couldn't but notice the similarities but with an added false or satanic stamp added by Driscoll.
I think what is going on is a matter of historical sequence. What I mean is since Christian metaphors came first (in driscoll's mind), they are Driscoll's sounding board and Obviously coupled with a rich mans mind and money the particulars will look a bit different, yet Driscoll seems not to be astute enough to see his Jesus seems to want the same as the "point" of the film, which is connection and restored healthy relationships between creatures. As a pastor you would think he would use the films metaphors as a teaching aid, not as a wall. It seems like his point in the sermon was to talk about the devil and the reality of his working in the world, well it's a bit childish to use a film like avatar when you can talk about Sudan, Iraq, war in general, Arizona, almost every inner city government housing building, The rural poor everywhere in the world, or even the the big no no in America, the CAPITALIST political economy. If you want to see the devil it would be good to start with the real world of evil, not a computer generated one.

Avatar is teeming with metaphors very similar to metaphors in the stories in the biblical texts. Sure details are different but in the long run if you dig down to the root metaphors of the film and many stories in scripture it is amazing to see the similarities. When driscoll was talking about all the satanic and false aspects of the film I couldn't but notice the similarities but with an added false or satanic stamp added by Driscoll.
I think what is going on is a matter of historical sequence. What I mean is since Christian metaphors came first (in driscoll's mind), they are Driscoll's sounding board and Obviously coupled with a rich mans mind and money the particulars will look a bit different, yet Driscoll seems not to be astute enough to see his Jesus seems to want the same as the "point" of the film, which is connection and restored healthy relationships between creatures. As a pastor you would think he would use the films metaphors as a teaching aid, not as a wall. It seems like his point in the sermon was to talk about the devil and the reality of his working in the world, well it's a bit childish to use a film like avatar when you can talk about Sudan, Iraq, war in general, Arizona, almost every inner city government housing building, The rural poor everywhere in the world, or even the the big no no in America, the CAPITALIST political economy. If you want to see the devil it would be good to start with the real world of evil, not a computer generated one.

Hello, Melody. As I stated previously, I have been traveling. My response to your question is rather lengthy (too lengthy for the comment box, I believe), and so it is posted at the following:

http://consumingjesus.org/

All best wishes,

Now back to my travels,

PLM

Interesting what some actual indiginous people thought about Avatar's message...

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/tribesfolk-criticism-prompts-cameron-to-rewrite-avatar-sequel_1159152

P.S. - Enough Driscoll.

I agree with the previous comments “enough with Mark Driscoll”. This is about being redemptive in the way Christians seek to share God’s love and truth.
As a Christian who is also an African, I would like to recognize that Pastor Mark’s critique and exposure of the superstitious parts in the movie Avatar serves a brief purpose, but is found wanting and falls short of a Biblical and culturally relevant missiological approach. This issue at hand is the common incident of individuals who set out to enthusiastically resolve one or more problems, but their solutions end up creating future problems or negative and unintended consequences.
How so?
Let me take this chance to provide a crash course on “African Traditional Society” (ATS) or “African Traditional Religion 101” (ATR), since I am familiar with this particular orientation, which is very similar to the Animistic portions of Avatar. Take not that ATS or ATR refers to the ancient classifications which are relatively different from modern or contemporary Africa.
During the course of watching James Cameron’s award-sweeping motion picture, I was reminded of the “beliefs in the Ancestors”. In most of African Traditional Society (ATS) or African Traditional Religion (ATR), the ancestors are the dead members of a family, a clan, or a tribe. They are of a ripe age and even though dead, they are a part of the life of a community. The African community “consists of the unborn living (those about to be reincarnated), the living, and the living dead (those who are deceased but are still remembered by the living).
Like in Avatar, ATS or ATR perceives the meaning of life to be intertwined with the ancestral presence and ancestral power. The tie-in with the dead is so much a part of the whole fabric of life that when someone is about to depart this life, they are requested to take greetings or requests to the previously departed. But communication does not end there. The deceased will again communicate with the living in this present life about anything.
In ATS or ATR, the ancestors are the most powerful, basic, and primary component of the kinship system. In an African Traditional community, death and life co-exist communally and in interdependence and solidarity. Religion, culture, life and meaning are all mediated, moderated, and sanctioned by the community of the ancestors. They are the custodians of the community.
Why is this historical and cultural synopsis of grave significance? It is because the Scriptures encourage Christians to set their heart on Christ the Lord, and always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect” (1 Peter 3:15). Any effective servant of God should know that being prepared to flesh out the gospel in word and deed (Colossian 3:17) in particular cultural contexts, be it local or international, necessitates a believer’s dependence on God for wisdom and knowledge about how to deliver the gospel to people with gentleness and respect to their communities, norms, and culture at large.
As a missionary, I am privileged to serve alongside my brothers and sisters in the Western world. I enjoy great relationships and fellowship with Christians in the West. In fact, it was a young couple from a country in the West who introduced me to Christ.
Yet as one who also has been on the receiving end of a predominately Western missionary sending enterprise, I witnessed missionaries who brought the Gospel with a Western and forceful worldview, which was a mixture of Biblical values, cultural Christianity, and the general cultural and social core values of Western society. I wonder whether Pastor Mark has paused to prayerfully consider his blind spots and reflect upon his full display of anger in the video. Is that how Christian leaders should respond to other people groups and cultures reflected in movies? Where is gentleness and respect for those we seek to reach with the gospel?
Pastor Mark’s “mixture” of Western thought with Christianity included a brutally negative view of indigenous, religious and cultural heritages. It reminds me of how Africans were told not to play their traditional drums in church because they were “evil”. With this kind of ethnocentric disposition, it followed that the missionaries refrained from using the African cultural worldview as a means of connecting effectively and thus transmitting the gospel. Their antagonism led to a lack of serious study of the African religious and cultural heritage as a mean of relating to the African people, and thus sharing the gospel. In general the African people were marginalized and underserviced. This narrow approach left out the wider and the more pervasive and dominant African religious and cultural worldviews as tools for a more effective gospel contextualization and transmission.
Pastor Mark’s unfortunate attack on a non-Christian movie not only reveals a failure to steward the opportunity to properly administer the ministry of reconciliation, but also an unhealthy sense of evangelical proprietorship and bad missiology.
My prayer to God is that the innocent viewers and listeners will ask the hard question: if indeed Pastor Mark was about pointing people to Christ, wouldn’t he emphasize the person of Jesus Christ and not focus simply on what he considers false Messiahs? How about mobilizing the church to labor in prayer for the profound people who inhabit these alternative belief systems? If he is about reconciliation, what about considering not simply pagan aspects in Avatar and the cultures it reflects but also the witchcraft of materialism and market driven religion and consumerist lifestyles fostered in the American church context and Christian scene here in the West?
Next time, let me suggest that compassion and being relational is a better route to go (Luke10:27), not angry judgmentalism.
Pastor Mark needs to consider building bridges and looking for redemptive analogies in indigenous and non-Western cultures rather than simply attack them. For example, as a Christian leader, he should have affirmed the movie’s cherishing of reconciliation, community, visibility of kinsman-ship (“I see you” is a phrase similar to the African philosophy of Ubuntu: "I understand who you are.") The idea of visibility bound up with humanity as interconnected should be championed. My prayer is for Pastor Mark and church leaders at large in the West to be about the ministry of reconciliation of humanity to God and one another, instead of being about division.

For those who are still interested in this dialogue, there is a compelling article written by Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley, a Keetoowah Cherokee Indian teacher, lecturer, pastor and historian. @ http://ethnicspace.wordpress.com/who-is-doing-this/

Peace,

Chris