For example, as I explain in the book, research suggests that one of the factors that contributes to whether or not young people stay active in church after high school is intergenerational relationships. The students who have more and deeper relationships with adults other than their parents are much more likely to remain in the church in college and beyond. Now, smaller congregations offer tons of opportunity for developing these intergenerational relationships. But the hallmark of large churches is age-segmented ministry, programs designed to separate children from youth, youth from adults, young adults from seniors. When small churches imitate this model, they undercut their advantage for fostering intergenerational relationships.

Ed: So are you arguing that small churches are more effective than larger ones just because of their size?

Brandon: Absolutely not. I have been involved in healthy big churches and unhealthy small churches (and vice versa). But I believe that small churches have some real advantages over larger ones, advantages that could make them more effective in some important aspects of their ministry. That doesn't mean, though, that small churches will be more effective just because they are small. A congregation has to recognize its strengths and learn how to leverage them in order to be effective.

What I'm trying to say is that small churches aren't ineffective because they are small. Size isn't the problem. The problem is being star-struck by mega ministries so that we fail to recognize all the wonderful things the small church has going for it.

Ed: Some people will argue that if a church isn't growing numerically, it isn't healthy. How do you respond to that?

Brandon: First, I would say that there are many ways to gauge the health and vitality of a church. Instead of measuring success in terms of the number of people we attract, we can judge success in terms of how many people we equip and send out for ministry, for example.

Second, in many places, perpetual numerical growth will be impossible: in rural areas where there aren't many people to attract or in urban areas where the cost of real estate prohibits growth. We need to learn to be more creative--and more biblical--about the ways we measure ministry success. The churches I highlight in the book determine their success based on the percentage of their youth and young adults who stay active in church life after high school, the number of people they are training and sending out to launch sister congregations, the percentage of congregants who are involved in ministry outside the church, or the congregation's ability to reach people on the margins. These things may, and sometimes do, result in numerical growth. But they definitely contribute to kingdom growth, which is ultimately much more important.

Ed: Is there any content in this book that would be interesting to pastors of larger churches?

Brandon: It's funny--my uncle is pastor of a megachurch, one of the fastest growing churches in America at the moment. When he found out about my book, he said, "I'll read your book because we're family, but I wouldn't be interested in the topic otherwise." Fair enough.

I've noticed a trend in my work at Leadership journal: large churches are finding ways to channel a small church vibe. Some megachurches are building small chapels where they offer quieter, more intimate worship on Sunday mornings; they are hiring staff members to facilitate intergenerational relationships; they are moving away from programming and focusing more on developing people. I think this book could help pastors in those churches make these adjustments with greater clarity of vision.

In fact, one of my favorite chapters in the book highlights the ministries of two churches who approach ministry in exactly the same way. One has 200 members. The other has 2,000. Again, I'm not talking about a church model; I'm talking about the way we understand ministry success. That applies in churches of all sizes.

Ed: What is the one main point you want readers to take away from this book?

Brandon: If readers take nothing else from the book, I want them to hear this: your church--whatever size--has everything it needs to be used in extraordinary ways for the Kingdom of God. You don't need more resources or more volunteers; you just need the imagination to see how God has equipped you uniquely to carry the gospel to your neighbors.

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