Just noting the irony that the author behind this perspective also wrote the book, "The Strategically Small Church."

Can you really wield influence on God's behalf? Doesn't conversion mean laying down your life?

I think of Esther---for such a time as this. God will raise up who He will raise up and put down who He will put down--even Christians.

Brandon.....Anne Rice? Maybe a clearer example than someone who has recently renounced Christianity if not Christ.

I guess I've seen so many spiritual infants rushed back into the spotlight as "Christian trophies" and then flame out. Can we who know something of the landscape of ministry temptations so naively expose a new believer to such pressure? If the person is to be influential for the Kingdom of God, shouldn't wisdom dictate that we consider 1 Timothy 3:6 to be an applicable principle?

I think a little less triumphalism would serve the American church well. Even if Augustine thought it might be OK.

I should know this, but I don't. What did Augustine think of the conversion of Constantine? Seems like that's a way bigger celebrity conversion than Victorinus.

Did Augustine celebrate that conversion, or have some of the reservations he expresses here about the hubbub over Victorinus?

The conversions of influential people are clearly a good thing, but the law of unintended consequence is also in play. (Unless you're a hyper-Calvinist, who doesn't believe that unintended consequences exist with a sovereign God.)

Don't mean to hate on early church fathers, but I think Augustine is way off on this. God doesn't sit up at night hoping that 'if only Oprah or Ryan Seacrest would come to faith we could really get this Christianity thing main stream again.' My experience is that He does more with plain old fisherman than 'important' people every day.

only in the evangelical sub-culture with its dysfunctional need to position itself as embattled and inferior would excitement about worldly celebrity be something to consider.

oooh, look! our conceptions of art and music may be consistently 5 years behind the mainstream, but at least we've got Steven Baldwin making horrible made for tv movies on SyFy for Jesus!!!!! we must be ok.

If we celebrate the conversions of notable individuals like this than we also will have to take criticism for fallout from other notable Christians who fall away from the faith. For instance, it seems the Church is happy to claim victory for a conversion of a notable figure but then dodges questions when others fall victim to the celebritization. (I'm thinking of Jon & Kate without their 8)

While we can, in public rejoice in conversions we need to realize that in serving in our personal services that no one is placed above another in accordance with the NT commands.

In our culture (like others) there is a significant voice in profound followers of Christ who simply tell their story. For instance stuff like iamsecond.com does well to elevate the individuals above their calling. Their stories provide glimpses of how Christ redeems us all.

Just some thoughts.

Oh btw this comment:

"Just noting the irony that the author behind this perspective also wrote the book, "The Strategically Small Church."

Is brilliant!

Interesting that the Bible doesn't make more of the conversion of Sergius Paulus than it does of the Philippian jailer.

When the business world becomes our paradigm in the church, then by all means rejoice, but if there is not more rejoicing in heaven over the converted pauper than the converted rocker, then we should pause.

Isn't it interesting, when you look at the way God introduces His Son, that He went out of His way to skirt the high-and-mighty: a virgin from a dusty town, babe in a manger, growing up in Nazareth, no "school of the prophets" degree, choosing 12 "unlearned and ignorant" men...

This is not to say that salvation excludes the high-and-mighty. Obviously it does not. But I have trouble rejoicing more because a famous guy believes. Makes no sense.

@nathan: Considering the article is about Augustine, I guess it's not "only in the evangelical subculture"....

@Rob,

understood.

I guess my point is that you don't see other segments of modern day Christianity getting breathless like this without any reflection on the inherent hypocrisy of it all.

I would also say we'd be remiss to import our particular cultural/time concerns of "evangelicals" into a person like Augustine.

Augustine's paramount theological concerns were the victory of Christ over sin and how the agency of that victory is The Church. (That's how he painted himself into a corner on things like unbaptized babies and such, but I digress.)

Even the quote cited in the article demonstrates this.

The significance of Victorinus for Augustine was not some soft "culture war/culture engagement" evangelical idea.

It was evidence of the inexorable and continual work of Christ's conquering of sin and the reversal of a disordered universe into closer and closer alignment with the Kingdom of God.

Celebrity conversions are certainly a mixed bag, Brandon, though this one may be a bit less juicy and more instructive than, say, if another Baldwin brother were to come to Christ.

Victorinus was a dry-as-toast orator and writer, definitely no actor or heart-swoon for the ladies. As Augustine details at length, Victorinus converted to Christ privately after scrupulous Bible study—a point worth noting as we think of how we as a church today lead anyone to Christ, let alone a celebrity!

Augustine describes how Victorinus was initially reluctant to identify publicly with the church. Thus, Augustine’s exultation at Victorinus’ subsequent public defense of Christianity is less the exultation of the man catching a big fish and more, as R.A. Markus details in his chapter on Victorinus in The Cambridge History of Later Greek and Early Medieval Philosophy, the Gospel rupturing “the force of the social and cultural links which had held the distinguished rhetorician allied to the traditions of his [pagan Senatorial] class. To break them required the strength of mind which Augustine's story stresses and which served Augustine as a model for his own conversion.”

So Augustine’s claim is not that God prized Victorinus more or that the church should, but rather that the world saw Victorinus as one of the last “impregnable fortresses” of paganism. His conversion marked the falling of what the world had viewed as a mighty tower, and this is why Augustine exults.

We might (understandably) express a similar sentiment were Christopher Hitchens to become a passionate and tireless Christian theologian. And it is this last point that ought to give us pause for thought: Do our ways of discipleship produce knowledge Christian expositors…or just spokespeople?

Celebrities are just like other people. They will sin, whether they are Christian or not. Why do we think a Christian celebrity who is an "insider" in Hollywood has some special protection from sin and failure?

Why do we elevate these people so much?

Why do we go out of our way to get these people to speak at our churches?

And then why are we so quick to distance ourselves from them when they mess up?

And why do we think a Christian celebrity is so much more important to the kingdom of God than the anonymous believer who doesn't have a spectacular testimony?

Thanks for the article. I found the account of Victorinus very interesting. However, Anne Rice? I don't think she even considers herself to be a Christian!

On July 29, 2010, Rice stated on her Facebook page:

"Today I quit being a Christian. I’m out. I remain committed to Christ as always but not to being “Christian” or to being part of Christianity."

“In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life. In the name of Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen.”

Mmmmm....

Augustine was happy because Victorinus was GIFTED and TALENTED, and would now bring his talents to the service of Christ. Whether famous or obscure, people with great talent are assets to the Church, but so is every single soul who repents. Before you argue with Augustine, try to find any comment of his that actually states, "famous converts are more important/valuable than obscure ones."

"...I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." -- Luke 15:10 (NIV) I think that it is awesome that there is rejoicing in heaven over every single one of us when we repent and turn to Christ for forgiveness. No matter if they are famous in the world's eyes or not, everyone is worthy of rejoicing over in God's eyes.
I think that the real concern should be over Christians (especially pastors) who become celebrities. Fame carries with it a great deal of responsibility. We must be careful not to put people on pedestals. The higher up we put them, the farther they'll fall when they fail us.

About "celebrities" converting, it's a good thing its awesome! But there still normal human beings just like you and I and they have a free will just like you and I. I just don't know what the big deal is. I mean it's good that they came to Christ, but did they do it for the right reason or the wrong reason. Did they do it to be in the public eye for a short while or trying to make money of Christians. I guess we just need to see how these people then live their lives.

The biggest problem with celebrity conversions is that those around them are so dazzled by their celebrity status that they attribute maturity of faith to them that is not actually there. Thus, the celebs go through lots of the spiritual warfare issues that anyone goes through, but often too early because they're elevated to the public eye by their natural status and not their spiritual understanding.

I'm thinking when Bob Dylan got saved... the fame just about destroyed any vestige of faith he had, and there are many others. In years gone by, people like Sharon Stone and others have been celebrated for their faith... and then they went on as normal.

It's not that I think that celebrities can't be as dedicated to Christ as anyone who puts their heart into Him, but often they don't get the chance because of being feted by their adoring Christian public... and then they fall and we all kick them when they're down... oh dear!

Allan - how is Kirk Cameron a "negative" to Christianity? I'm not a big "Left Behind" fan, nor am I following "The Way of the Master," but it's not as though he's living a double life. By all accounts he is living with integrity.

So no, he's not "cool" like Bono, but he supports a camp for sick children and their families; he has adopted four children; and his outreach with the gospel is genuine (if, perhaps, programmatic). So I don't understand the objection, except if perhaps it's that he offends your personal style or approach to ministry.

I remember Steve Taylor in concert at Sonshine (MN), as an introduction to his song 'Smug,' announcing that Burt Reynolds had just become a Christian (pre-Boogie Nights, as if that matters). The 20 or 25 thousands fans were in an uproar. And then, when he announced that Loni Anderson had also converted, I knew he was up to something (though the crowd continued its frenzy). And then he announced that a friend of his had accepted Christ, and the crowd was suddenly somewhat more subdued with its jubilation. And then he went into Smug.

His point? You never really know with that guy. He's artsy and into satire, and okay with various interpretations. What I took away was this: if we are indeed truly convinced of our own decision, that Jesus is the only way, then why would we need a celebrity conversion to validate this? That is pathetic, in my opinion (though I did clap at both Burt's and his friend's announcements, and not Loni's).

Who knows how influential a new believer will be? As a pastor, I instructed my congregation to applaud just the same at such news, no matter the person. Sure, extravagant healings and sudden conversions are encouraging, but the greatest miracle is still the conversion that takes place in each person's heart. Our potential lies in the Spirit, not social position.

Yes I am all for making a fuss about celebrities who confess the Lord openly.I appreciate their candor because most young people love to emulate celebrities good and bad ones .We need people who are in the limelight who can influence people in a good way.Most celebrities are leaders in all things ;good or bad.For a change a reputable movie star or public official can help young people or even people in general to study the faith and turn to God.Yes I make a fuss every time I witness the conversion of a celebrity and I point him/her to my own children and grandchildren to let them know that God loves humanity including the famous people of our time.

I think there is a subtle desire to have respectability, and when a celebrity comes to Jesus, we think we might collectively enjoy a measure of it.

Rejoice when anyone (small or great)comes to the Lord, but KNOW THIS: respectability isn't part of the deal. Or am I misreading Hebrews 13:12-14?

Well said Anne re: Kirk Cameron. Remember, the guy has acting skills from a sitcom. Besides, how come it is suddenly uncool (hearkening back to a previous blog post about hip Christianity) for a celebrity to be totally sold out for Christ and unashamed to proclaim his name in everything they do? And why is it cool for some celebrity to have vague references to faith w/out ever confirming their faith?

What we tend to forget is that a conversion to Christ is a beginning. Celebrities are excited as young Christians are. The fact that they are in the spotlight can be a blessing and a curse. We are incredibly self-righteous at times and we can destroy a spirit in a Christian as fast as a thief in the night. I am in agreement with Anne Rice in some aspects. It is easier at times for a person to cling to Christ if they are not being hammered by His People. Two things to remember...Are we as quick to support these children of Faith as we would others....and do we pray for these people more than we "discuss" them?

we are humans, it will be difficult not to celebrate such conversions. the same way if he denounces the faith, more concern will beraised than an unpopular person. but one thing remains, their status in heaven remain the same because there is joy in heaven for any lost sheep found.

"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him." 1 Cor. 1:27-29

I feel that those in Hollywood (and often in politics too) sell their souls to become famous and/or powerful. So when I hear of a conversion, I don't think about influence as much as I do that they were snatched from the fire.

If a celebrity (or anyone) had the gospel explained to them properly, they would have been told they have to count the cost, deny their celebrity, and forsake their status in exchange for a relationship with Jesus. I have friends who WERE celebrities (who eveyone on this post would know) who gave their lives to Christ and have sinced lived a life of "obscurity"...Unless one gives up the "god" they serve i.e. celebrity, status, fame, wealth,etc. they cannot have the God of the Bible...He will not share the stage with anyone...celebrity or otherwise.

Is it valid to be hopeful that a newly-saved celebrity will use that celebrity to advance the gospel? Of course. And to do so does not demean the value of an obscure individual coming to the Lord.

The important things are simply that we celebrate every salvation, that we not personally idolize celebrities, and that we not dismiss the power of God to work through the humble.

Prov 27:21 TLB, "The purity of silver and gold can be tested in a crucible, but a man is tested by his reaction to men's praise."

Prov 16:2 NJKV, "All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the spirits."

1 Cor 3:4-9, TLB, "There you are, quarreling about whether I am greater than Apollos, and dividing the church. Doesn't this show how little you have grown in the Lord? Who am I, and who is Apollos, that we should be the cause of a quarrel? Why, we're just God's servants, each of us with certain special abilities, and with our help you believed. My work was to plant the seed in your hearts, and Apollos' work was to water it, but it was God, not we, who made the garden grow in your hearts. The person who does the planting or watering isn't very important, but God is important because he is the one who makes things grow. Apollos and I are working as a team, with the same aim, though each of us will be rewarded for his own hard work. We are only God's coworkers. You are God's garden, not ours; you are God's building, not ours."

Whatever or whoever we put before our relationship with God is an idol. I think our praise of others has become more popular than our praise of our Holy God, to whom we ALL will have to give an accounting for.

In need of HIS grace becasue HE alone is worthy to be praised, Tanya

Celebrities conversion can be very interesting and made great publicity. I doubt God cares whether you are a celebrity or a nobody.

The real issue should be personal faith in Jesus and a growing relationship with Him.

The fruits of repentance had to be lived out daily after conversion and being a living testimony of God's grace and mercy is more important than placing a celebrity on pedestal.

May God helps us to celebrate each soul that comes to accept Jesus as Master and Savior in his or her own life.

the one and only celeb I can think of is Kirk Cameron, now that's a guy on fire for the Lord!

Part of our problem is that "celebrity" and "influence" are far too closely linked in modern American society. Maybe part of what is needed is for Christians (including "celebrities") to resist that link.

It is also a problem that some converted celebrities end up in fringe-ish movements where their overall witness is problematic. Whoever moderates this forum does not seem to want names to be suggested in that context, so I'll say no more.

I guess you could say that the first 'big catch' would have been Saul of Tarsus. Just in case you haven't noticed it: from then on Saul took the attitude that if he had anything to boast about it was Christ Jesus ... although occasionally he did take joy at those who were faithfully following Christ.

Alice Cooper told the tale that he once arrived at a church to speak. In big letters the sign out front declared: Alice Cooper. Alice observed that it was all wrong, the big letters should be: Jesus Christ. He was right.

Christ died for everyone, including celebrities. But James warns us not to give the prominent a greater consideration than the small. It is unfortunate, but many in our culture notice what celebrities do and say. As Christians we shouldn't envy or copy the world, because we have something better, The Son of God.

Christ died for everyone not just for people who are poor and unknown, but also for those who are wealthy and well know aka also celebrities. God can use people no matter the situation or position that they are in. God works in unexpected ways and he can do incredible things in our lives as well as the people around us. It is exciting to think about all of the possiblities with Christ!