There is a major difference between the church insisting that the earth is flat, and insisting that homosexuality is sin. The Bible states the second clearly, and is silent on the first.

As well, Haggard wants "forgiveness," but I would wonder if he is confusing the concepts of forgiveness (which he should receive in love from Christians), and unqualified acceptance without consequences. The actions of those in leadership have consequences. And while the repentant one should not be shunned or excluded from the church, there are certain consequences that are proper, and a degree of trust that takes time to establish.

I find it disconcerting, frankly, that HE has the gall to criticize and try to discredit Christianity when (and that people listen), when he is the one with "issues" (by his own admission).

Ted got to see how the church treats homosexuals & he realized the "good news" was lacking in their actions. I'm glad he saw that. I'm pleased he said homosexuality isn't correct, which it isn't. Yet, neither is the way we've villainized them. Sadly, the evangelical church is very legalistic & as long as you keep to their suburban, white, conservative, happy world things are good; but deviation reveals the depth of their devotion.

Well...the first thing that came to mind was something along the line about people living in glass houses...but then I realized that sometimes people grow up, not spiritually, but intellectually.

Mr. Haggard has a long road ahead of him before I'll consider him ready to speak in public much less to any issue with spiritual authority.

Well golly gee! Doesn't it just make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? It's amazing how he manages to elevate himself in all of this. It's obviously all about him and it always has been.

Sounds like he is in the trap with those who define the gospel in man-pleasing terms consistent with the world system rather than God-pleasing terms consistent with all revelation. I'm sure lots of folks in the man-pleasing mode will come here him so he can get a pay check out of the offering plate and be up front with a special title.

Does anyone else find Brian's above comment demeaning ? "as long as you keep to their suburban, white, conservative, happy world things are good; but deviation reveals the depth of their devotion."
Tell me exactly how much happier the millions of poor, unemployed, uninsured whites are than their non-white counterparts.
Or maybe they are happy because they live (for the time being, anyway, until foreclosed on) in the suburbs?
Tell me exactly whats 'white' got to do with the 'depth of their devotion".

No video... just a black box. Updated Flash player on my system, but no luck...

@ Steve: (It was Sean, not Brian) and I think that would be the exact question he is raising! What does being 'white' have to do with it!?!?!?

And yet, how many evangelicals live in white neighborhoods because its where 'good christians' live? I thought 'good christians' don't hide behind walls!!!!!

Sean is right on. Our 'devotion' to the gospel is often not much more than our devotion to our culture. The same is true of our 'devotion' to God's word. We are willing to proclaim homosexuality a sin but unwilling to proclaim greed a sin. How is that biblical? We are willing to proclaim homosexuality a sin but unwilling to proclaim de facto segregation (ie suburbanization and white flight) a sin. How is that Biblical?

The religious right wants to tell people to read the Bible, I want to know when they will read it!?

@ Tom Donaldson - here is the link to the video on ABC News - http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/fallen-pastor-finds-fault-6782229

You know what they say: even a broken clock is right twice a day.

There's some truth in Haggard's words but it's tainted by obvious bitterness. It also seems clear that he's not exactly sure what he wants to say or, perhaps, how we wants to say it. "Don't be judgmental, be healing" is a flimsy gospel and paltry theological account of God in Christ.

As a man who left homosexuality, 31 years ago, but not for religious reasons, some of what Haggard says rings true. I, unlike him, would not single out those on the religious right. In my experience the religious left is just as wrong as any on the right.

Those on the right condemned me, but those on the left affirmed me in my sin. Where is Christ in either position? I see in the Bible "and such were some of you...", but I have not found a Church which can offer the past tense to my sin and sinful proclivity. God had to lead me to the answer, and for me it is quite clear.

The question for my fellow believers is: How is it that you can condemn or affirm, but you cannot bring anyone to, "such were you..."? Think of Haggard however you like, but you, who criticize him here, what do you offer?

My 2 cents

Lonnie

Good on ya, Lonnie. Yours is probably the most accurate response here: "Where is Christ in either position?"

If I were to judge Haggard, I don't know if I'm more offended by his hatred and judgmental attitude before his public fall, or what he was doing that led to that fall. Obviously, both were going on simultaneously, which made him a hypocrite. And "hypocrite" sure seems to exasperate our Lord Jesus as much as anything does.

I'm less and less surprised when we find out the private struggles of another high profile Pastor or leader who's been preaching and teaching condemnation.

That is why I try to steer away from a condemning attitude in my own life: I still have my own personal struggles and brokenness that Jesus isn't through with yet. When we condemn, it prevents our own healing and restoration from taking place. When we condemn, we continue our separation from God by assuming a role God didn't intend for us.

And yes, if it is our function as Believers to call out sin, then we must call out ALL sin: greed, gossip, indifference, hatred, slander, malice, judgmentalism, dishonesty, arrogance.

Ezekiel tells the exiled Israelites in 16: 49-50 why God destroyed Sodom: 49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

I'm glad it's NOT our function to call out all sin. That is why back in the day, in the very beginning of our relationship with God, the only thing we were forbidden from was pursuing knowledge of good and evil.

Grace and Peace,
Mark

"Jesus came to heal us from our shortcomings."
Oh my. He shouldn't be complaining about people's inability to forgive. He doesn't think he needs forgiving. He needs healing. He doesn't have sin. He has shortcomings. The church should demonstrate an eagerness to forgive, regardless of the sin. Haggard should demonstrate a willingness to repent and receive the forgiveness that is offered.

"Haggard should demonstrate a willingness to repent and receive the forgiveness that is offered."

And therein lies the issue...does he even want to be forgiven?

This is a man who used his spiritual authority to corrupt young men in his ministry. (Why is nobody asking about the other young men who have said he abused them?)

He has no business critiquing the evangelical church.

That said this is my main question: How is it that he relates evangelicals influence with the results of an election? Does he really believe the only power of the Gospel is performed at the ballot box?

I pray for this man, I hope he finally submits to the spiritual authority that is seeking to restore him but also keep him accountable. His hubris is maddening.

"Do you agree with his perspective?

No, I don't. I don't believe the Bible does, either.

i encountered a similar reaction after the exposure of a leading member of my congregation in similar circumstances to Haggard. the refusal to acknowledge the sin, to repent and to turn away increased the pain for all concerned. It is the use of 'counselling' language - of mistakes, of issues, of my wounds etc - and the non-acceptance of biblical discipline that as a pastor i found very difficult. yes there can be a lack of love by the church but equally there is a lack of repentance, sorry, shame and honesty in Haggard's response. The higher up the leadrship ladder that people go the greater the consequences of their fall into sinful lifestyles - at the end of the day i think a prolonged period of silence, repentance and renewal of his marriage etc would of greater service to the gospel than anything else. i pray we are more honest about sin but also that those who are caught truly repent and dont go on a media crusade to justify their sinful actions.

I have so many mixed feelings on this - he gets one thing right, ie. that the religious right is impotent. I think Church and politics in America has become so enmeshed and polarised that people are unable to separate the two and as such a lot of Christians' credibility has been undermined.

Having said that, Haggard seems to have gone beyond this and seems to be disillusioned not just with the expressions of Church which he sees, but with the gospel. I agree with Alan McCann on his failure to face up to the consequences of his sin. The Church does need to extend God's grace to people when they approach in an attitude of repentance, but it seems to me that this has not been the case, and that Haggard's former Church have just been following the advice of 2 Timothy 3:5

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