My family experienced the "no distractions" policy firsthand. We were in an Elevation service in late 2009. Our 2-year-old daughter was not willing to try out the class for her age group, so she accompanied us into the main service. When the singing was over, she spoke a few words loudly, and we were promptly addressed by an usher lady to take her to a classroom. After doing so, my wife returned to the main service, and within a few short minutes our number was paged on the screen. My wife had to leave and get our daughter, and miss the final portion of the sermon and service.

In retrospect, I've come to believe that every church must compromise in some way to achieve their vision. At Elevation, this appears to be one of the compromises they've made. Right or wrong, good or bad - well, I guess it just is what it is.

"Elevation, which probably represents the views of many churches, says they want to "offer a distraction free environment." I'm assuming this means avoiding distractions from among the congregation, because in my experience there is plenty that happens on the stage at churches that keeps me distracted from God. Smoke machines and lasers, really? But I digress."

No, no, me thinks you do not digress, rather, me thinks you underscore the exact problem that bedevils the church: Distraction free enviroment.

services are an enviroment of distractions with cute baby's cooing, old people trudging to the bathroom every fifteen minutes, the sounds of coughing that makes me wonder if a TB break-out is imminent, sneezing, cell-phone humming, women chittering about their babys (cue'd by present baby cooing), or about how impressive the music is, or guys murmuring loud enough to challenge a shop-vac for background white noise.
So if one kid gives out a "YEAH baby! Right on G-d!" amen...at least someone is paying attention...I would think the pastor would want the kid up front to at least reassure himself that of the wad of humanity in the sancturary at least one person is listening to his prayer/sermon, or, at the very least, be an example to everyone else of how to pay attention in service.

captcha: hotart uprising

Who says coincidence doesn't have ironic moments.

We would love to have that kid and his family in our sanctuary to hear the Word and receive the Sacraments.

Chances are, though, in a church named 'Elevation', the family was better off for being escorted out. Just a guess, but I would bet that it is one of those 'holiness' churches where it all reverts back to you nd your seriousness and your spiritual ladder climbing project.

These christian-themed entertainment venues need to stop using the word "church" - it clearly confuses people.

sheerahkahn is onto something. :)

If we're going to have a "distraction free" policy, we need to apply it equally: Kick out the foot-shufflers. Kick out the squalling babies. Kick out the chatterers talking about the cute new guy in the choir. Kick out the candy-unwrappers. Kick out the people who come in late and want to squeeze into the already-full pew because it’s “their pew”. Kick out the people whose cellphones go off in the middle of communion. Kick out the sneezers. Kick out the water-drinkers. And then it will be really quiet, because there will be no one left.

In all (or at least more) seriousness: I, for one, am easily distracted in service, and am bothered by unwarranted noise -- especially conversations that have absolutely zero to do with what's going on at that moment in the service. If you're carrying on a random conversation, you're acting as though the service is there for your entertainment, not something in which you should be engaging as a participant (by singing, prayer, worship, listening to the Word, etc). I would much rather hear an "Amen!" than a conversation about how bloated you are (and yes I’ve heard things of that nature. Sigh).

But honestly, I'm more distracted by *constant* noise and movement than by one, likely isolated outburst, especially when I’m aware that the person is probably not aware of what’s going on, or aware that he or she is loud. I don't think one out-loud comment should be enough to get you ushed out -- especially when you are, for example, a special-needs child who has less conscious control over your verbalizations.

That said, if you (generic “you”) have children, and you know they are restless, easily distracted, or that they have a habit of being noisy, and that you may need to make a quick exit -- or, even, if you're an adult and you know that about YOURSELF – you should, IMO, be respectful of others' intentions for attending the service, and not plant yourself straight-up in the middle of the sanctuary, where the movement is likely to be a distraction to others.

There needs to be compromise and understanding on all sides... and also, awareness of the fact that the lecture-like format that most church services follow is not particularly conducive to communal interaction. If we had less of the sit-still-for-an-hour-and-15-minutes type of service, then we might see a more welcoming feel that is truly reflective of the type of community Christ intends for us.

methinks the issue is beyond hospitality. The church is a family, and meets as a family to honor and commune with the Father through the Son, our Elder Brother. To exclude any of that family, particularly the least and vulnerable, to avoid distracting others reveals a fundamental flaw in perspective.

"Hospitality" refers to welcoming the guest and outsider, and certainly generous hospitality toward outsiders honors God and reflects his invitation to all to come to his kingdom. But I find that little word, "guests," as applied to a church congregation to be troubling in and of itself. If the spokesman was referring to Easter visitors, then excluding a disabled boy for any reason other than terrible disruptiveness or danger for their convenience undermines the testimony of what it means to be a fellowship of believers. If the term was used in reference to the congregation at large ... what does that say about the perceived relationship between "church" and congregation? Yikes.

I find no indication in the Bible that the early church was a distraction free environment.

The houses were relatively small with a limited number of rooms. Children were undoubtedly present. Street noise likely invaded the "listening environment". Can you imagine hearing someone cursing his donkey in the middle of the sermon? It might even top a crying baby as a distraction.

And then there is the example of the preacher talking "on and on" - even Luke appears to have gotten a little bored! - and going until midnight when, after untold hours of preaching, someone fell out of an upper storey window and died. And then there was the ultimate distraction of him being raised from the dead.

Distraction? How DARE we decide for God that someone does not meet the standards to participate in worshiping God with other believers!

"We focus on Worship not Ministry" Elavation Leadership
- This story is so outragous, how can we claim to be followers of Jesus who spent his life on the margins with the powerless and outcast...
If this was my church I would leave -

I've been to Elevation, and the pastor's product-laden hairstyle is a distraction to me. But no one asked him to go to a classroom. Yet.

Hey guys...let's avoid cheap shots about hairstyles and keep our remarks substantive and useful. Besides, it's insensitive to those of us who are follicly challenged.

Skye

I'm wasn't trying for a cheap shot, why isn't there more outrage? This seems to be a snap shot of our comsumer church mentality - we offer a distraction free service of inspirational worship - so we can mold our lives to follow one who called the children to come to Him - inspite of disciples attempts to keep His ministry distraction free.
The Gathered worship should be the whole community joined together - the slick and the suffering, those in and those out - those who keep quiet and those can't keep quiet... the church is the Body of Christ Gathered -

Not only is this alleged "service" distraction free, it is also mutual, one another oriented expression free- a dynamic God has asked for in multiple scriptures. They are all rendered meaningless. Our current fellowship had a brother with Cerebral Palsey who loved to lead the communion time. That is exactly what he did every week and our hearts were humbled and transformed. What a HUGE loss for the saints at elevation. It sounds like they are stuck on pleasing men rather than the Lord. I used to be in this mold. I got out. The rest of the saints Did not want to talk about it, not even about where it says we are to give greater honor to the parts of the body that lack it and hold back honor from those parts that already have it.

I think the saddest part of this is that to me, we have made worship into this amazing teaching moment when real depth in the Christian life normally doesn't happen there. It happens in relationships and mentoring and smaller groups. We hold the worship service up on a pedestal because we can reach the most people at it when Jesus' best teaching moments were not with the big crowds, but with just the twelve or fewer. I feel ashamed for this church who seems to have missed the mark and it makes me wonder who I keep out of the church I pastor. It may not be the special needs kids, but it may be the poor or the broken or the needy.

Absolutely disgraceful is an understatement.

And tragically, this is not an isolated incident in today's churches. Our insensitive disregard sends these already heartbroken, isolated families toward the door ... and the end result is that they may never return to any house of worship.

Our house church is blessed to have a man who lives with autism and many other related challenges. And yet, he brings a depth of relationship to Christ that runs circles around the rest of us. Our community gatherings are richer, deeper, and fuller because he's a member of our family.

His prayers are meaningful, deep, wise, and substantial. We love you, Brian!

It is sad that people are made to feel uncomfortable in some of our churches. I belong to a church were we have a large number of disabled people who live in homes for disabled adults come to our church. They have staff members who are will to bring them and family members who want them to come, but live to far away to bring them. We embrace them as part of our church family and we enjoy it when they rejoice in the Lord during the service. When children talk louder than they should we have a good laugh because it makes the parents more comfortable when their child isn't quiet in public.

I have a friend who has received this kind of treatment. Her son has a form of autism. He is a smart kid, but social interactions are really hard for him. He has a caregiver, but he was asked not to attend children's services because the teacher's didn't know how to deal with him, even though he had his care giver with them. Instead of the teacher helping the other children adjust to having him there, she actually didn't want my friend's son to be a part of her group.

I apologize to all those who have been hurt by churches who don't see others as valuable persons who enhance the church family. I pray you find a church who loves on you and heals those wounds.

The fundamental error that underpins all the ghastly aspects of modern "worship" at these "churches" that have been discussed in the article and in the comments.

Hint: Can someone point to the Biblical basis for making the worship service bear the burden of the church's evangelistic outreach? When the revival era moved from weeknights in a big tent to Sunday morning in churches, we ended up with "worship" services that are not focused on God. Instead, they are focused on visitors and their tastes. At that point, Pandora's box has been opened. We are then splitting hairs when we decide that it is OK to have a member of a "worship team" spend the whole service in a little room from which he throws levers to control the lights and tries to manipulate the mood of the congregants, or it is OK to have a rock band playing, but it is not OK to cater to visitors in some other way that we find distasteful. When the focus of "worship" is no longer God, do you really think that you can draw lines in the sand any more?

We have examples of evangelism to the lost in the New Testament. Paul speaking on Mars Hill, or in a synagogue, or in any place where people gathered publicly and were willing to listen to a speaker. Which examples involved changing the worship of the church?

Before we start lobbing grenades I think we should honestly look at the problem. At the root of the problem is the culture more than this particular issue. 90% of downs syndrome kids are aborted. We do not like being annoyed.

Another part of the problem is that the Evangelical world has made the sermon the center point of the service. So it is about being quiet for an extended period of time (in many churches it is 45 minutes or so). That is not friendly to children or frankly to many ADD challenged adults like myself.

Another problem is the lack of community at large churches. I go to a large church and understand the issue. But when I went to a small church, you know the issues and problems of other people in the body. If you know that a child had a disability, you are more likely to forgive the issue because you know the family.

But everyone that is complaining, how many disabled children and adults go to your church? Families with disabled kids don't in general go to church because church does not reach out to them and churches are rarely trained to deal adequately with disabilities. Also couples with disabled kids also often get divorced, in large part because of a lack of a suport structure that helps them.

A productive response would be less complaints and more investigation of our own churches to see if they is any training for the children's department about how to deal with disabilities. The church service was not probably the best place for this child. If Elevation, or our own churches, were better trained and staffed to accomodate.

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." I don't think this refers to the perfectly quiet children. This story breaks my heart - we miss the opportunity to learn and experience Christ when we do not allow ALL to come and worship Him in whatever way the Spirit chooses to move them.

Someone once said...the Church is the only organization created for the benefit of those that aren't members. How far we have strayed! The Lord is coming soon, I hope that won't distract anyone...

This isn't a church anymore than Ringling Brothers' Circus is a church. They seek to provide an experience for their viewers while at the same time trampling grace and mercy for those most in need underfoot.

As the sister of a sufferer with chronic mental illness (who although a believer no longer attends church where she feels judged and rejected) and the mother of a child on the autism spectrum, who often does distracting things in the worship service (distracting at least to me) . . . ouch!

Seems like policy setters at Elevation risk getting caught in the shoes of those in Matthew 25:45. Who are the "least of these" if not this mother and child? I can definitely second most of the above comments.

I would most certainly have had to have been there to judge the matter justly. But I do believe distractions are inappropriate. This young "special needs" boy may have not been what I consider distracting at all. Yet I do find it odd that some parents believe their non-stop crying or chatting child deserves to be honored above the 100 people they are distracting. We act like a 1 year old, who has no concept about what is going on in the church service anyway, is of much more value and importance than the many, many folks they are keeping from engaging in the service. I believe those distractions need to be removed, yet if you do, you can rest assured that those parents will be deeply offended and the church will be deemed unloving. We will sacrifice the many to make sure the one is not offended, that's wrong.

I may be more sensitive to this story since I work with adults with developmental disabilities, but I'm a bit surprised that no one has mentioned that the church is often discussed as a family. I can't imagine any healthy family asking family members to sit in the kitchen during dinner because the dinner table is supposed to be a distraction-free zone.

To me, this issue goes deeper than a church's view of what a "worship service" is, this amplifies a church's view of the relationship between "GOD and us" as well as between us and those around us.

My everyday job is working with people with profound disabilities and advocating for them. I really hope that other articles I read about this situation are true and Elevation gets some proper training and knowledge on this issue. I want to believe the best that they will respond well t0 this adversity. Let's pray that their leadership use this situation as a positive moment to grow and review their best practices.

I don't understand why we have to vilify people who think a church service should be as distraction free as possible. Are we really saying that people with disabilities and small noisy children are to be valued over others? I'm sure if the church was having a meal together, as a family, they wouldn't dismiss a special needs family member or small unruly child from the dining area and I'm sure the church (actually I'm not sure, I've never heard of Elevation church before), I assume they have all kinds of things that special needs and small children could attend. I know as I raised my children, I didn't feel like I was treating my fussy 2 year old as less than worthy because I didn't take him to the movie theater with the rest of the family, but got him a sitter. I guess I should have taken him and if he cried or screamed or squirmed and distracted half the theater, so be it. There are lots of settings where we don't take special needs or small children, I don't think we are marginalizing them. Maybe I'm the odd one out in this conversation.

I thought I remembered the name of the church. So I googled it, and looked up the pastor's name: Steven Furtick. I remembered reading something else about him on the Ur blog:

http://www.outofur.com/archives/2010/09/furtick_uses_24.html

Coincidence?

Disturbed

I think you hit the nail on the head: the church in question is indeed the same as a movie theater.

Based on the comments posted, I do have to wonder about how distractions influence the whole church. People with ADD or ADHA or other disabilities feel welcomed when distractions are “normal” while introverts may feel the exact opposite. Since the idea that churches SHOULD be more embracing of distractions will favor some while hindering others, perhaps that’s too simplistic an answer to say, "Embrace disruptions." Actions always influence others--some actions favor one group while other actions favor another group, so the idea that churches should embracing disturbances--all kinds—will probably show love to some while making others feel less than loved.
I think that the root of the problem is that we focus on the disruption itself, not the CAUSE of the disruption--intent.
A person with a disability who cannot control a distraction is not the same as someone who fails to think about how his or her behavior could negatively impact others. A loud outburst by someone who cannot control that outburst is not the same as constant chatter by someone who chooses to focus on PERSONAL WANTS (I want to talk about or do whatever I want, whenever I want.) Both actions are disruptive; however, some disruptions are simply SELF-CENTERED behavior that fails to realize that there are times to speak and times to not speak, time to move and times not to move. Seriously, a person elderly or not) with bladder issues is not the same as a person who habitually doesn't think ahead and use the restroom beforehand. Hospitality is about thinking about the needs of others, be that accepting disruptions or not causing disruption.

As a mom of six children, three of which have disabilities (one is in a wheelchair who makes noises, one has cerebral palsy and one cannot walk well), I can feel the shame the mom and son felt being escorted somewhere else. I don't care if it was another place in the church. Jesus wouldn't have done that. I'm sure the mom already felt self conscious. She and her son have experienced all the look-look-away-quickly junk that happens to people with disabilities in our culture. There are times my son who is a total care child (he will be 12 in September) makes a lot of noises. And I will tell there are times I am self conscious about it because I don't want to disturb others. BUT, recently in Bible study another Believer told me he sees God in my son. And when my son makes noises God uses them to touch this man and his wife. It brought tears to my eyes.

This church staff is missing out on Jesus when they do these "polite" ways to get rid of distractions. Plus, it is insensitive and a subtle form of bullying. They need to look at this issue again.

I attend a small church that has welcomed my Fragile X Syndrome brother. Our doors are also open to street people who wander in and a number of people with mental/developmental difficulties. They make worship all the richer.

Maybe they should have cut a hole in the roof and lowered the child down through the ceiling. Jesus didn't mind! Mark 2:4; Matt 4:24; etc.
Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous but sinners." Mark 2:17
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me. and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." Matt 19:14

@Disturbed, I do think there is a balance. There can be a season of life where we must be prepared to walk out with our babies and small children when they get loud in a worship service out of consideration for others. There can also be perfectly appropriate times and places where we deliberately hold gatherings specifically to minister to our adult members. I am prepared to make a case that this must NEVER be Sunday morning worship services of the Church (nor any service of the Church where communion is celebrated)!

There are at least two things unique to the Church's classic self understanding as being members of the very Body of Christ (joined in intimate organic Communion with Him as our Head) that I think this story offers the opportunity to reflect on. One was that throughout most of Church history, the gathered worship of the Church on Sunday was traditionally understood to be that moment when we most become what we are in Christ (this always culminated in the sacramental act of Communion at the Lord's Table, in which only those who were baptized could participate). I believe there is a spiritual self-understanding as to what it means to be the "Church" that has been lost where this practice has been abandoned by modern Christians. Gathering to celebrate the Eucharist was THE culmination of the purpose of Sunday morning worship in the early Church (and throughout most of its history since). "Worship" was not confused with outreach (though the liturgical worship of the Church did many times convince outsiders of the truth of the resurrected and living Christ and of Christian faith), still less was it understood as "spiritual" entertainment for adults (like a movie theatre).

It seems to me this sacramental self-understanding of the Church is not well-understood, let alone respected, in many of our modern corporate "worship" settings, which leads to a loss of the second unique self-understanding that has been an integral part of a fully Christian faith--that is the meaning and sanctity of human beings as bearing the image of God regardless of age, gender, ethnicity, or ability/disability and worthy of participating fully in the sacramental life of Christ's Body.

Before the modern period, people at every stage of life were considered fully members of Christ's Body if they were baptized (because Christ by having been incarnated as a human being and being both fully God and fully Man, has made holy unto God literally every stage of being human from conception to mature adulthood by having made it literally to bear the Divine Nature in His own Person). Therefore, from the beginning, all baptized Christians participated in every aspect of the life of Christ's Body (not least of all its corporate worship) as they were able. In the NT, not just the deciding heads of households, but whole households had the Holy Spirit descend on them and were baptized in response to the gospel message. (The Gk. word for "household" used in these passages, literally includes everyone in the household, including slaves and infants and young children belonging to the family). Our modern rationalistic and individualistic understanding of the nature of our participation in the sacramental life of the Church is foreign to the Bible and to classical Christianity (i.e., the Church of the first several centuries.) Before the modern period, there was no routine segregation of people in terms of their incorporation and participation in the sacramental life Church by peer groups. In fact, it was the abolishment of such divisions (male/female, slave/free, rich/poor, old/young) among human beings that became the hallmark of the early Church, where Christ's identification with ALL of us, including and especially the "least of these," was THE criterion of a Christian's identity. Thus the worship space of the Church where the people gathered to worship became, in effect, Jesus' family room.

In purging and sanitizing our corporate gatherings of the inconveniences of family life, so that we do not require adult members to bear with the "least of these" on some level, we purge ourselves of the opportunity to imitate Christ in His sacrifice on our behalf, preferring one another in love, as He has taught, in order to enfold every member in the loving embrace of Christ in the Eucharist/at the Lord's Table. In other words, we abort the only valid reason for our being gathered together in the presence of Christ in the first place. This is no small matter, and it seems to me that this is why so many are responding here as they are, whether they realize or can agree with all that I have shared here fully, or not.

disturbed said: "Are we really saying that people with disabilities and small noisy children are to be valued over others?"

ummm....YES!!! Or do we not understand the meaning of "the least of these", or Jesus' rebuke of those who sought to keep the small noisy children away from the attentive adults? So based on the "least of these" premise, they actually escorted Jesus to another area at Elevation.

A simple recommendation AFTER the service would have been fine, maybe even welcomed by this mother who was not oblivious that her sons noises were a bit of a distraction. But, this is deeper than carrying out a crying baby, he was in a wheelchair! Can you imagine how stuck she might have felt, hoping he would quiet down, but not wanting to jump up and cause more commotion by having to maneuver him back out?

Amen to what Todd said. YES, they are precious, and to those whom much is given, much is expected in return. Again, unless we were there, we don't have the full picture. But ... a kid blurts out a big shout at the end of a prayer. It sounds like the mom and the kid made big strides to be there, and *wanted* to be there. The comments about this church being a performance/experience/movie theater instead of a true community: yup. And I'm not surprised. My chief hope is that SOMEONE in that audience (yes, audience, not congregation) embodied enough Christian virtue to walk out into the hallway with the mother and child and apologize on behalf of the church staff for their "policy." It's a tragedy, to be sure.

All I have to observe is this:
"Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me". And the crowd tried to silence him. But he shouted out all the more, "Jesus, son of David have mercy on me".

Luke 17:1-2 - "Then He (Jesus) said to the disciples, 'It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through which they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones'."

I imagine that is why Jesus in the book of Revelations is trying to get back in His own church:

Revelation 3:20 - "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

Can you hear Me now???

"Elevation" - huh. Just another distracting church service name.

What about all the people in the congregation that are constantly shouting out "amen", "hallelujah", "praise God", "come on now"....these are all continual statements shouted out during the sermon at my church and yet those are not considered distractions...hmmm, strange.

"We will sacrifice the many to make sure the one is not offended, that's wrong."

No, that's not wrong, that's putting Matthew 18:12 into practice.

This type of behavior is what drove me away from the church. I didn't want to go but I had to find something to hold onto. The church has become the world. I was trying to find some sort of thing to take shelter from a predatory society. The church drove me away. I finally found a way to deal with reality. But I didn't want to leave the very thing I grew up with.

Our church is anything but distraction free: we meet in an art gallery, there are noises come from above and below of weddings being cleared out or art being transferred, children sit in the front or on the floor or run down the dusty corridors until they go to sunday school, and it's usually super hot or super cold depending on the season. And we love it. Because God meets us there - and in our overly distracted everyday lives - and celebrates LIFE with us. Life with all it's noises and shapes and sounds.

I think if we truly wanted distraction free worship, we'd never get out of bed in the morning, let alone leave our house and join imperfect people and imperfect institutions together in imperfect worship. Why exactly do we think God won't be at work within imperfection or distraction?

It would have been a real treat for me to see this young man worshiping God in his own way. Who are they to try to mold him into what is "non-distracting" for them. I am perfectly sure that his honest heartfelt "amen" was received by the Lord with gladness. I have a family member with CP, and know how life is a challenge for him - what a joy to see him succeed at whatever he tries with the help of God. And he knows where his help comes from! He may be a minor distraction at times, but anyone who was so distracted by his honest praise is too sensitive to be in a crowded church. Shame on you "Elevation Church" for making this young man feel "less." Shame on you!

I appreciate your piece here. You give good thoughts. People are to be removed from the fellowship of the Body for unrepentant sinful behaviors, and what this boy did was not a sin. However, referring to this kid as "Special Needs Boy"- I mean, you didn't mean anything by it, but he's not a 'special needs boy'. He's a boy with special needs. A boy with a disability. He's a boy. But, I appreciate this article very much.

Psalm 100 says Make a joyful noise unto the Lord! Wow - I think that this church missed the boat somewhere. We have a special needs son with autism who has taught our family more about God and Christianity than anyone or anything else!!! He calls Communion "community." And that's exactly what we are called to is community. Jesus came for the sick, the wounded, the lost, the lame, the blind, the sinner! and we are all sinners in need of a Savior.
Unfortunately, those who have not lived with a special needs child can be so insensitive, rude and clueless. Blessed are the merciful.

I would say three things:

Firstly, the use of the word 'guest' tells me this is not a church as I would understand it - there are no guests, we are all part of the body of Christ.

Secondly, responding to God is at the core of worship and it sounds like that is what this young person was doing. Chat about the human context might be distraction, but responding to God is what worship is.

Thirdly, most Christians regard abortion as, at most an unfortunate necessity, but often as thoroughly undesirable, therefore churches above all places should be recognising and valuing the contribution made by individuals with significant disabilities and their families.

Our, very small church is greatly enhanced by the presence of a significantly disabled young person who often points us to the presence of God in our midst. She is fully a member of the body of Christ, and a blessing to us all

We as parents of a 24 year old profoundly disabled man have just been told to remove him during the sermon as he is making too much noise because of toothache. He has been baptised as a member we thought folks love for him overode the noise but the minister visited our house the other night to discuss this and used his authority in no uncertain terms to say remove him during the sermon