And that's why I became Anglican

awesome. thanks for not editing.

First off, kudo's to you as a parent for having a 9 y/o actually sit through a service studiously...most 9 y/o's I know are little more than squirrels hep'd up on meth looking for anything to do or place to be than where they are at then and there.

Lastly, love the way she detailed her observations noting, albeit, reading between the lines, what one church vs another looked like and which appealed to her senses.

Damning, and yet intriguing at the same time.

A nice experiment, Skye, perhaps you should take her around with you to more of these churches...could be an eye-opening adventure.

sheerahkahn,

our kids, at least the 6 and 9 year old, join us every week for the worship service. it can be challenging at times, but they are now pretty good at engaging. I have no beef with age-appropriate ministries, and our kids do engage them, but i think this needs to be kept in balance with the value of including children as vital parts of the body and community. And much of the research i've seen shows that kids who grow up feeling like a valued part of the church tend to make it part of their identity as adults. In other words, fewer of them become de-churched.

Skye

"And much of the research i've seen shows that kids who grow up feeling like a valued part of the church tend to make it part of their identity as adults. In other words, fewer of them become de-churched."

I wish I had known that seventeen years ago...my boys are "neutral" to Church, and despite me teaching them and guiding them, they're.../sigh...yeah.
The only affirmation they get about their fathers faith is when they dare to question the youth pastors teaching, "oh, you must be [sheerahkahns] son." followed by the youth pastor walking away.

They think it's funny, and though I find it charming and flattering, I've tried to instill in them that knowledge without the tempering spirit of G-d is a war-sword being wielded by a cruel fool who cannot be bothered to distinguish between friend or foe.

I wish I had done things differently...more fool I.

"Let the little children come ... for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

I'll bet your daughter would love to do much more than just the stand up and sit down, watch and listen routines. I bet she would love to read a scripture out loud that is part of the teaching, pick a hymn that she likes for everyone to sing and say why she likes it, and ask a question of the teacher, or offer a cross reference to his point that she memorized a year ago. I bet she would love simple, active, heart driven participation with the saints of every age. I think she would really enjoy doing what the Bible says believers should do when they gather. I bet she whould enjoy demonstrating the "filling of the Spirit". Eph. 5:18, 19 And I bet there are some adults who would be deeply challenged by her participation. I know I have been, but then that was a kind of worhsip meeting with no ceremony and platform show.

Just this Sunday, a 9 year old boy read several scripture passages that were part of the teaching. I have never heard an adult, even a trained preacher read the scripture with the energy and thoughtfulness that he did, and without any coaching or practice. Every phrase was a zinger to the heart.

... hope to read more of your daughter's observations and insights in the years ahead.

Women {and young women} often have a unique perspective that's worth considering.

"And much of the research i've seen shows that kids who grow up feeling like a valued part of the church tend to make it part of their identity as adults. In other words, fewer of them become de-churched."
Can you provide references to this research? My 9-yr old is also able to engage with service. Her sermon notes can pick up the main points pretty well. The 7-yr old not as much.

Greg,

Kara Powell from Fuller has presented about this research in numerous places, and her book about it is due out this fall called "Sticky Faith."

Skye

Skye, that was amazing. Thanks.

I filled the pulpit in an 180 year old Presbyterian congregation several times this year. On one Sunday I did a children's message and tried to make it almost all visual and tactile, asking the children to look around and up at the stained glass and touch the old wood of the communion table, etc. I did this because just being there evoked such memories of my childhood in an old Methodist church in the Midwest. The sacred symbols captured my imagination.

I fear evangelicals have lost any imagination they might once have had.

I'd be interested to know what she felt she learned about God or His people from these observations, and which service impacts her more a few years from now. The conversation about relevance, appeal, and history in our services could be informed by some of these insights.

My 5 year old grandson was in church with me. After the singing I asked if he wanted to go with the kids. He replied, "Isn't this when the pastor talks to us about God? I want to be here for that." Then during the response time when we have a variety of ways to respond I asked if he wanted to go with the kids. He said, "Isn't this when we talk to God? I want to do that" He wrote a note: Dear God, I love you. Love, Caleb. A Little Child shall lead.

My young son once wrote these observations
during our service:

"There are three things you do in church:

Sit down,
Listen.
Go home."

Formerly Evangelical, I was received into the Eastern Orthodox Church a few years ago (still evangelical, btw). My husband and children remain Evangelical (Willow Creek style), and we alternate Sundays and continue to go to church together, so with a few details changed, this pretty well describes the two experiences!

My favorite phrase: "the pastors sit on their knees" -- I love it! Thanks for this glimpse, Skye.

As a recovering PK, I hope you got your daughter's permission to post this. :)

Coming from a liturgical background, it is instinctive for me to reverence (make a slight bow towards) the altar as I'm entering the pew.

Except in my church now there IS no altar. The instinct is still there, and it sure looks as if I am reverencing ... the drum set.

I really do have pretty inclusive tastes, musically. I have my preferences (who doesn't?) but if you want to play Palestrina or have a praise and worship band or choose any of a variety of styles in between I can handle most things. But the physical setup can be telling and I do wish it were a little (or a lot!) different.

Church A sounds like a classic Western Rite Liturgical Church. (From the description of one of the pastors as female I would guess Episcopalian or Lutheran.)

Church B sounds like a First Megachurch of Disneyland. All that's missing is the onsite amusement park and pony-ride stable (I am not making that up).

Church A sounds like you could experience the Numinous -- Mystery, Awe, and Otherness. Church B sounds like just another floor-show spectacle -- what happens when other non-church shows are more spectacular?

Short summery: Bowing and communing verses preforming and brewing. Or, put differently, sacred space verses same space. North American evangelicalism exposed by a child! All the time crying "God is real, God is real!" while at the same time denying the incarnate presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the trinitarian presence of God in Holy Baptism, etc., etc. I am convinced that if an evangelical could make it through Christian Smith's The Bible Made Impossible #Brazos, 2011#, Confessional Lutheran and Anglican churches would be swelling.