I simply will never understand why this man, one who treats other human beings who are not like him with such disdain and thinks it is funny to ridicule others, is used as a model of Christian leadership by Out of Ur.

One of the many reasons I really wonder about the future of evangelicalism.

Interesting to listen to Mark explain the way in which Jesus denounced religious people who love to be on display and perform for an audience.

I'm not at all sure that this Jewish man was praying in order to be seen and admired. The context of the Salt Lake City Airport is totally different from that of first-century Israel. In ancient Israel, people who prayed like this would indeed have been considered praiseworthy by many of their fellow Jews. But in the setting of a 21st-century American airport, it's unlikely that many people were watching this man with great admiration. It's more likely that they looked upon his behavior as rather odd and eccentric. And that being the case, I doubt very much that the man was praying in order to impress people. I'm sure he understood that his behavior was outside the mainstream.

Driscoll, I fear, is guilty not only of making fun of this man but, even worse, of judging his motives.

arrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh Not again, Mark!
you need a sabbatical, brother

I watched all the way to the end of this video, although the illustration he used with the Jewish man strayed way too far into making fun of him. I had to force myself to listen to the rest of what he said, after beginning his message by attacking someone. He could have made his point any number of other ways and been much more effective. It makes me hesitant to listen to what he has to say in the future and doesn't reflect well on the use of his material here.

“Wow! Thank you God I’m on another team.” (Lk 18:8-14)

So, while a man was praying in full accord with his tradition, a pastor with no relational connection was, instead of praying, waiting for him to finish so he could correct him.

The Jewish man could later speak to others of God graciously giving peace to his nervous flyer's heart. But the pastor possessing the Spirit of Jesus would later gracelessly turn a human into a bullet point for a sermon.

Pray like Jesus. Got it.

Has Pastor Driscoll ever prayed using the Psalms, THE historic prayerbook for both Jews and Christians for millennia (Psalm 136)???

What is also glaringly on display here, for any student of historic Christian liturgy, is Pastor Driscoll's apparent ignorance of NT and early Christian practices of prayer (that were in total continuity with the liturgical practices of their Jewish cultural roots). It seems to me that if this ignorance were not blinding him, he would understand that Jesus does not in this Gospel passage condemn repetition in prayer per se (which was the norm of Jewish liturgy-both personal and corporate--and in which Jesus undoubtedly participated with total integrity), but only *meaningless* repetition and doing one's religious observance "in order to be seen by men." This being the case, I think it is safe to say public ritual or liturgical prayer does not, by definition (as so many Protestants seem quick to assume), necessarily equal what Jesus is condemning here.

As Steve has astutely pointed out, Driscoll had no way of knowing this was the case with the Hasidic Jew he encountered in the airport, and there are good reasons for believing that it was not. Personally, I can't help but feel relieved that Driscoll's close encounter in the airport, did not become actual encounter!

Complaining about Mark is the low-hanging fruit here. So how about we go a different direction, Out of Ur?

Here Mr. Driscoll is expounding on not praying like a religious person as the pastor of a religious organization. How do you handle that same conflict? How do you train the folks who are following Jesus to pray? Moreover, how do you handle prayer in your corporate settings? Should we pray when we're together, or all go home and pray in our closets?

To answer my own question, I teach people to rely on God directly, and talk to God for real. I'm always disappointed when I show up at a hospital bed, a home, or some other place and folks who are following Jesus with me were waiting for me to show up to pray! I gently admonish them to trust that God loves them enough to listen to them, that I don't have magic words, or a "special" relationship with God. That said, there are times I pray passionately in intercession. Could they too? Yep. And I hope they do.

What do you do?

I spent the time to listen to the whole video and just want to add this insight: The reason that Jesus emphasized the WILL OF GOD when he told the disciples how to pray is because religious people are so sure of what the will of God is that they will stand as judges over people. But Jesus is saying that to pray differently we need to realize that often we do not know what the will of God is in a particular circumstance and so we need to pray that God would exercise his will over this or that and leave it up to him without trying to judge and pray according to our own judgement.

He presents a fairly competent interpretation of the scripture, which is making a fairly simple point here (he could have done it in about half the words, though).

But good grief, his ridicule of the Jewish person praying in the airport was so far off the mark as both an illustration and in terms of a basic charitable response that it would be laughable if he didn't have such a big audience, many of whom will believe it. His ignorance of Jewish tradition and practice, and the seeming need to denigrate this person, is really appalling and seems to be something of a pattern with him. More likely the Jewish gentleman was praying not to impress but with the full knowledge that many would think it strange and possibly even ridicule it.

Requesting all who read this to pray for Mark so that he and all the rest of us listen to the teachings of God and recognize it when it is coing out of our own mouths and the message is for us.

To me, the tragedy here is not what Mark says, but what he is doing to the royal priests sitting there. It's all part of a huge system called "expository preaching" where it is assumed these saints need another Bible lecture on prayer, and everything else in the Bible, even though they have heard 500 - 1000 professional sermons already, and they will need one every week of their lives till they die. The text is clear enough for a 5th grader to understand it by himself. He doesn't need a hired lecturer to exposit it.

These saints, and most institutionalized saint in the country are consuming 75 - 86% of their "giving" to make this exposit thing happen. I"m praying that saints wake up to what the Bible really says about what it takes to be "equipped for every good work."

Part of the tragedy of "expository preaching" is the institutionalized faith that says we all need to pick apart the preacher if he says something we don't like. God designed His body for something much better than all this.

Ruth Haley Barton said it better than I ever could:
"I don’t know about you but there are times when I can literally feel it—deep in my bones—that if I do not shut my mouth for a while, I will get myself in trouble. This trouble will come either because I am tired and lacking in the energy to be disciplined in my use of words or because I haven’t been quiet enough in God’s presence for my words to be connected with any sense of what God is saying in the moment. There are times—especially when I am in the middle of speaking five times in a row or have been with people way too much—that I feel like crying out, “Somebody please stop me!”

The Scriptures describe the futility of undisciplined human verbosity by pointing out that “in the multitude of words there is much transgression.” (Proverbs 10:19) This is a truth that could drive us ministry folks to despair given the incessant flow of words from our mouths, pens and computers. Those of us who deal in words are at great risk of misusing words and even sinning with our words due to the sheer volume of them!"

http://www.transformingcenter.org/2011/08/part-3-silence-and-word-stillness-and-word/

Linda, great quote! Astute observation.

Tim, re: expository preaching, I think you're right that many times preachers compose sermons that are more academically interesting and verbally clever or entertaining than genuinely spiritually edifying and on target according to the real spiritual needs of their flocks. In my experience what is most needed is a simple exhortation and encouragement from Scripture based on prayerful listening to others and to the Holy Spirit, along with a commitment to not just explaining, but actually *doing* to the best of one's ability Christ's commands in the gospel. I find it is only as a person seeks to fully *obey* God (one's "willingness to do the Father's will") that we begin to more deeply understand, not just the words, but the significance of what Christ is teaching through the Scriptures (John 7:16-17). No amount of scholarly research of the Scripture's meaning and context, nor application that comes merely by analysis of human reason (John 5:39-40) can compensate for that real spiritual dynamic of how the Holy Spirit reveals and convicts of truth in ever greater depth. There is a depth of meaning in the Scriptures that is not revealed by even the best of academic study and exposition. In my experience, it is only this depth revealed to our hearts by the Holy Spirit (and which may be indeed simple enough for not even just a 5th grader, but even a small child to understand!), which has the power to transform.

I need to be more careful where I pray and how lest I become a how not to pray, sermon Illustration. I am glad God is listening with an open mind to what I am saying, and not how I am saying it.

okay I get that people think he was being uncharitable to the jewish man praying in an airport...but isn't mark right? isn't his point of that jesus taught us to pray more in line with a child talking with his/her good daddy a better and more accessible way of looking at prayer than asking for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich 50x over and over? Good grief...get over yourselves and your right to be offended.

Whenever I see an article about Mark Driscoll all I can think of is, "Now what crazy thing has he done or said?" And unfortunately, Mr. Driscoll never fails to deliver.

/sigh

Low hanging fruit indeed...so much potential in him going unrealized...just makes me sad...I think I'm now at the point where I'm going to stop reading articles by him or about him...he's too much like watching a slow motion car-accident coming to a metal grinding, blood curdling screeching halt in the middle of a quiet neighborhood...I just can't bear to watch or comment any more.

Chap, some of the best stuff I've read on prayer is found in an unassuming little book entitled Beginning to Pray, by Anthony Bloom. I think you will find your essential understanding of prayer as real relationship deeply validated there, but you may also better understand the place of liturgical and repeated prayers and even intentional disciplined periods of stillness and silence in the Presence of God in the life of the Christian.

I, too, don't disagree with the broad brush exposition Pastor Driscoll offered here, but my concern is that his application demonstrated a very superficial (and, indeed in the particular circumstance he used as his illustration, likely inaccurate) application of that teaching. ISTM we obscure, and perhaps even in part undo, the accuracy of our exegesis if we give such poorly considered concrete illustrations. Conversely, ISTM, a correct transposition into a concrete situation demonstrates true understanding.

Personally, I didn't post here to bash on Pastor Driscoll, because even though I believe he goes a bit off the rails in this talk, his basic belief and attitude to which I object (and not in a mean or uncharitable way, I might add) could be repeated many times over within the Evangelical circles with which I am familiar. IOW, I think they reflect some rather common misconceptions, and so I took the opportunity to try to dispel some of that for what it might be worth.

If we would look at the whole counsel of the Scriptures, as well as seeking to understand a little of their context in the actual practices of Israel and then the Church, and not just at Christ's words in this passage through our own particular modern Christian tradition's prejudices, we will find repetition and public prayer *per se* were not the issue for Jesus. What Mark Driscoll and many Protestants, including myself when I was Protestant, seem to completely overlook and (if my experience is common) may simply have never been taught is that repetition and liturgical prayer have *always* been the *norm* in both Jewish and Christian worship (private and corporate), historically speaking--just as it is true that there also comes a time and place for speaking from the heart--using words or not speaking at all and allowing our groans, tears or actions to speak for us--in the Presence of God. Clearly, the repetition is for *us,* not for God, Who knows what we need before the words are even off our tongues. And the Church has never taught that memorized prayers, regular liturgical cycles of prayer, or other spiritual disciplines were an end in themselves, still less an opportunity to show off our superior piety (God forbid!). Yet as a vehicle for transformation of the heart by facilitating an openness and true experiential connection to God, repetition and liturgy is a tried and true approach (coupled with the right attitude) and used with profound results in terms of transformed lives down through the centuries to the present day. Do a little research, if you like, on the use of what is commonly known as the "Jesus prayer." Better still, try it yourself. It is still key to opening the heart to God in Eastern Orthodox spirituality.

Chap, I've been thinking over what you wrote: "I get that people think he was being uncharitable to the jewish (sic) man praying in an airport...but isn't mark (sic) right?" I don't mean to pick on you, and I understand that perhaps I might be reading more into your statement than you meant, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But I was struck by an underlying assumption that Mr. Driscoll's "uncharitable" behavior could be excused as long as he was "right." Again, I don't know that you would actually argue that point, but I have seen many Christians who live this way; i.e., they are very concerned about being "right" and having the "truth", but they are probably the meanest, most uncharitable people you'll ever meet! I would argue that it doesn't matter whether Mr. Driscoll is right or wrong, his uncharitable behavior pretty much takes away the credibility for anything he may have to say on that point.

Now, I agree, some people's hobby is looking for things to get offended about! I agree that some here have probably been harsher on Mr. Driscoll than necessary. But not everyone has. Some, like Karen, have offered respectful and substantive objections to Mr. Driscoll's illustration; and it'd be a shame to lump everyone together simply as "haters".

I'd like to add my own obervation, which is that I think the main problem is that Mr. Driscoll was making fun of something he didn't really understand. And because he didn't really understand it, it was quite easy to mock it in order to make what (I think most of us here will probably agree) was an otherwise valid point. But like I said earlier, the way he went about it actually detracted from his point, especially in the minds of those who actually DO understand this person's prayer tradition. One of the principle I try to live by is "Seek first to understand, then to be understood." I think if Mr. Driscoll had done that in this case, he would've discovered that the experience of the Jewish man praying at the airport, which on the surface seemed like a perfect illustration, was actually irrelevant to the specific point Jesus was trying to make in that particular text.

I appreciate the well reasoned responses Bill and Karen and I do have a respect for for liturgical prayers. I grew up roman catholic, now evangelical, but never was a person to bash catholics. Having said that, as I read the Scriptures--it does seem that Jesus taught us to pray more in line with how a child would address her daddy. In fact, I would say that this can be accomplished through a liturgical prayer. It just bugs me that we are quick to jump on a guy like driscoll when he accurately addresses a problem with "religion" when it comes to prayer.

Chap, in case you're still paying attention to this conversation, thank you for your respectful response. Like I said, I agree with you that some here are harsher on Mr. Driscoll than he deserves and would probably jump on him even if all he said was, "The sky is blue." And I agree that his overall point is valid, and quite relevant.

I don't know him, and I don't know his heart; so I'll just speak for a moment from my own experience. From listening to this clip, God is, in fact, convicting me to search my own heart and determine whether perhaps I'm not thinking through the illustrations that I use when preaching thoroughly enough. Something that at first glance may seem to get people's attention and superficially demonstrate what I'm trying to say may, upon closer examination, actually undermine my message. But the story is cute, or funny, or clever, or creative, or whatever, and so I keep it.

I think that's what some of us suspect may have happened with Mr. Driscoll. The fact is that he didn't have to use the Jewish man to demonstrate his point. Surely there are people within his own tradition who pray to be seen by men that he can use to illustrate. And not by mocking them, but simply along the lines of something like: "How many times have you ever prayed in public differently than the way you pray in private? If you are really honest with yourself, how many times have you tried to impress people with your prayers? How many times have you felt ashamed of praying in public because you thought you couldn't do it as well as someone who is more 'religious'? If you can relate to these questions, then Jesus is speaking to you!"

I think something like this would have been more effective and more relevant in illustrating what Jesus was trying to teach in Matt 6. And the more I've thought about it, the more silly the illustration of the Jewish man seems, because no one listening to him in that congregation (or at least mostly no one) will ever be tempted to pray in THAT manner!

If you really want to bring it home as a preacher, discuss a time when YOU prayed in public in order to be seen by man, and make a public confession and apology!