Just an observation: Homosexual marriage is not marriage in any Biblical, religious or even historical sense. No children are even possible outcomes of such an arrangement and therefore the "union" serves no societal purpose other than to further destroy the understanding of what a real marriage is. This wouldn't have ever even com up 50 years ago because real marriage was still understood and revered by the majority of Americans. When divorce became 'no-fault' the slippery slope became a luge. The church has been strangely silent on this issue. If I were asked to attend a 'homosexual marriage' ceremony I would politely explain that I could not attend because I believe that God created marriage to be between one man and one woman. Who can't respect that? God did not exclude non-believers from the marriage expectation and neither should we; but He is the one who defined marriage in the relationship between Adam and Eve. Why is this so hard?

Url, you're trying to ask reasonable questions of an unreasonable position. Our brother has dug a hole for himself, perhaps we should all just look the other way while he tries to get himself out?

Please say "Hi!" to your brother Uri for me. I miss our days on the sawdust trail.

I see that while Uri was the trapeze artist, you remain a tightrope walker.
This is a difficult issue, I can only pay attention to the comments and try to understand.

I don't think that doing someone's taxes is anywhere near the same as attending someone's marriage.

The question itself is not tough (but having to politely tell someone no to their invitation is). I think that as Christians attending a wedding we should be praying that the couple makes it and that God is at the center of it - if they're not believers that they'll find their way as a couple. I can't really see me praying for that for a homosexual couple - since the union itself is against God's wishes. A married heterosexual couple can find Christ and remain committed and married. A married homosexual couple finding Christ would lead to what? Divorce? Hmmm... According to scripture, that is not one of the acceptable reasons for divorce. So then what?

I do believe that by attending a wedding, we are approving of it. I can't approve of something myself that God doesn't approve of.

I wonder if we blur the meaning between a marriage as seen by God and one as seen by the state or the government. As Christians we somehow expect the government to be Christian when it's not. United States is not a Christian nation. It has used Christianity and our religion to set certain boundaries and laws and now it is stepping away from that heritage in many different ways. Marriage is one of those. I think the Bible is pretty clear that marriage is always intended to be between a man and a woman, but the state recognizes a different marriage. I think we can attend those ceremonies, while upholding what we believe to be God's intention for marriage. We can support loving relationships, without losing what the Bible teaches us.

What comes first and is foundational: God's establishment of marriage or the state's recognition of (and ultimately now, in the case of s-s marriage, redefinition of it!)? Perhaps in deferring to the state, then, we deny and obscure God's truth in this case. . . . I'm becoming more persuaded that to fully and faithfully uphold the fullness of God's truth about the nature of marriage, a Christian must kindly decline to attend same-sex weddings.

I couldn't agree more that we expect the government to be Christian when it's not. But it would seem counter-intuitive to me to support something that the government supports when the Bible clearly teaches otherwise. I am not telling them that they cannot get married - that it is illegal. What I am telling them is that as a Christian I can't be there to support the joining into the institution of marriage, which, as a Christian I believe was created by God for a man and a woman.

Would this be difficult for me to have to say? Yes, it would. But I believe that I am not honoring God if I am even seen as supporting a marriage that is completely against His will.

Why is homsexuality treated as though it's the chief of all sins?

Any of you ever lie? It was a lie that got all of this going (Read Genesis 3). No one complains about liars getting married.

"...a Christian must kindly decline to attend same-sex weddings."

And I, on the other hand, would respectfully accept.

Herein is the issue...a key issue, and one, by the very definition of our reborn nature, that underscores the reason you, I, and everyone who has ever said, "I am a follower of the living G-d." exist for the pleasure and will of G-d's purpose: We are here to provide an undeniable presence of the Living G-d writ large across our lives to the world around us.

You, me, and everyone else who has uttered those words are a center-piece of G-d's presence, the statue in the middle of the park, the proverbial white elephant sitting in the living room. Unignorable, unplacable, and most certainly unwelcomed to individuals neck deep in the ways of the world.

And having a follower of the living G-d at a "gay marriage" with the full knowledge of who you are, and that you are as a representative of G-d at such and event...what, pray tell, do you think people are going to think?

We would be perceived as a judgemental witness to the event...even if you have nothing running through your head but a admiring view of the flowers...the very fact of your presence would lead people to think about G-d and G-d's will...and the atmosphere of the ceremony would be ruined...and you never said a negative word, and kept a straight face; but your very presence shines a light on the wrongness of the event.

Now, for me, that is the sweetest part of being a follower of G-d in a world full of people doing their utmost best to ignore him...I enjoy watching people squirm as they try to dance around the subject of G-d...and the bible...oh, yes...the bible.
Knowing the historical context as well as the spiritual context of the bible comes in handy too.
Nothing like having a friendly smile on my face while disabusing ignorance of bibilical history in the middle of a happy moment.

It's kind of fun, actually.

So, accept the invitation, enjoy the revelry of G-d's holiness, and be the sopping wet blanket on the world's lil campfre knowing that it is not you, but G-d's spirit whom they are reacting too.

We need to not hide behind the arguments of all sins are the same in God's eyes. This simply is not biblical. All sin carries the same consequence, not because of the severity of the sin but because of the holiness of God. But not all sins are the same.

Wyatt, We do not hold ceremonies celebrating lying. We do not hold ceremonies celebrating greed, or any other sin for that matter. Why are we being asked as Christians to hold this one sin in celebration and bring it into the church when we have disdain for other sins?

Thank you Url (not, Uri :-) for injecting grace and reason into this "debate"

Elegance, "we do not hold ceremonies celebrating greed..." Have you been to a wedding before that cost more than $5000? How is that entire celebration not a celebration of greed and excess?

It is fully possible to tell a couple you don't approve; however, still attend because you LOVE them for who they are. To use one of their biggest days of their life as your own personal pedestal campaigning for Christ is probably the wrong time to do it and in good chance will fracture the relationship. If they asked you to come, it probably implies there is already some sort of mutual relationship there- so why are you suddenly choosing this one moment to stand up against them? There is a time and place for everything.

holly, who decides what constitutes "greed and excess"? If the wedding costs less than $5,000.00 are we then not greedy? If the bride and her mom and friends are creative and clever and things just look expensive but they only spent $2,000.00 what then? Your analogy just doesn't work here. Greed is a condition of the heart and a person can appear to have very little materially yet still be greedy.

The marriage relationship between a man and a woman is a picture created by God for mankind to depict the relationship He has with His Church. Those of us who are born again are called the "Bride" of Christ. The primary reason that homosexuality is distasteful to us is that, like divorce and sexual relationships outside marriage, it distorts that beautiful picture. Here is the lovely Genesis account. "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

I did notice that you seem to imply that the two homosexuals getting married in your example are not claiming to be Christians. I am encouraged by that.

Why so many red herrings? We keep throwing out - well, what about liars and what about excess, etc... The point is not about that. We are not talking about joining in a union of lying, or joining in a union of greed - we are talking about attending a ceremony of a union between a man and a man or a woman and a woman. God designed marriage to be between man and woman. When we attend a ceremony, it is typically to give our approval of it (granted, sometimes begrudgingly) and wish it the best. As a Christian, can you do that?

I am not talking about standing on a pedestal campaigning for Christ - I understand how it could hurt and cause confusion. But when I consider the question, I am thinking about how it affects my relationship with God. Am I offering a blessing on a union that clearly goes against His word and desire? I think that I would be at that point.

This question is coming very close to home. I read just this past weekend in a local newspaper about various alumni, students and staff of my conservative Evangelical alma mater who have formed a support group for those wanting to own and embrace a gay identity (i.e., including gay dating and gay "marriage") and who met at a local Episcopal Church during Homecoming weekend. "You can be gay (in this sense) and Christian" was the message of this group. I find this embrace of spiritual delusion tragic, but not really surprising, given the cultural climate in which we live.

I think it would be quite biblical to say you can have same-sex temptations and even failings, keep struggling for chastity and sexual purity and wholeness, and be Christian. I would fervently hope and pray that more and more such brothers and sisters could be completely honest about that in the company of biblical Christians and congregations and find genuine support, affirmation of their identity in Christ, and personal acceptance despite their failings, as well as strength to overcome temptation. I would be very cheered to read of a group from my alma mater with similar struggles banding together with other friends and supporters to gain strength and consolation in the struggle to remain chaste and pure.

Embracing gay "marriage," however, as others have pointed out in comments at this site is an agreement to sin and keep on sinning. It is an embrace of the world, not of Christ. That historically Christian denominations that are today entirely humanist and secular in their worldview (remaining Christian in name and liturgy only), have clergy that adopt this same delusion and also promote and bless such false unions only adds to the temptation for those struggling with same-sex attraction. For those bishops, priests and pastors I repeat the sobering words of Jesus from Mark 9:42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea."

Wow. I am simply blown away by the comments here. Conversations like this make me so glad I left Christianity and don't have to suffer through all you miserable people trying to justify your own hate and self-righteousness. This is why the rest of the country hates you you know. I'm assuming this question won't ever really be much of a problem for any of you though, I get the sense that none of you have ever knowingly talked to a gay person and I have a hard time imagining one ever inviting you to their wedding.

"Conversations like this make me so glad I left Christianity..."

And yet you come back to post...perhaps you haven't left Christianity as much as you like to think you have.

Sally, I'm sorry you see our conversational struggle to clarify biblical truth and be both loving to others and faithful to Christ (Who spoke the truth in the kind of self-sacrificial love that led him to deny his own natural sexual fulfillment, and endure persecution, torture and death for our sakes) as attempts to "justify your own hate and self-righteousness." It seems to me you must be speaking from a place of great pain, and I'm genuinely sorry for that.

I'm sorry to point it out Karen, you're comment proved exactly my point- this issue for you is hitting close to home based on an article you've read in the paper. Not based on a relationship you've wrestled with, or a friend, who's gay and that you've walked hand and hand with. I would encourage you to be that first volunteer, whom you wrote of, and start walking with someone who's gay.

$5000 is just an arbitrary number... Yes, someone can have $0 and still be greedy and someone who has $1 million dollars may not be. But looking at marriage in the US today, where the average cost of a wedding is between $19,000 and $33,000; I'd have to wonder if there isn't something more than just celebrating love and their commitment to God in that figure. Yes, it is their money and they can do as this wish but maybe a wedding isn't exactly as everyone is so eagerly defending it as.

By not asking the questions what about other religions or other sins... what you are doing is qualifying sin and placing people in a hierarchy of one greater than the another when we are ALL sinners and Christ died for every single person. No one by their own merit can better themselves than another, and last I checked, without grace you are no better than a gay person and you are no less than a gay person either. Christ died for all, and all need God's grace. However, if it is something you cannot agree to go to with a good conscience, then don't. However if it is something that you can say, 'I don't agree with gay marriage but I still love you as a brother or sister' then go! Yes, a gay person can actually understand the dichotomy in this- as they still love you even though you may not fully agree with them.

Holly, you make the wrong assumption that people here are not friends with people who are gay. My uncle is gay as is one of my friends from college and 2 of my friends from high school and my roommate in seminary. I hate that I have to say that to gain credibility.
My first answer (on the last posting) was that of course of would go if any of them were getting married. But the thing that has got me rethinking that is an article I just read about polyamorous relationships, if people involved in that were having a ceremony of blessing would I go? No way. Nor would I go to a wedding where a man or woman was marring the person they cheated with that ended their first marriage. Now maybe it's easier for me to say no to those because I don't have a real person whom I love in those situations, I don't know. But it has made me think more about why I would be ok going to a same sex ceremony and not those.

If my kid was gay, I would still love my kid. Though I don't think I could perform a marriage ceremony. Peace, Bill.

Holly, you make the wrong assumption that people here are not friends with people who are gay. My uncle is gay as is one of my friends from college and 2 of my friends from high school and my roommate in seminary. I hate that I have to say that to gain credibility.
My first answer (on the last posting) was that of course of would go if any of them were getting married. But the thing that has got me rethinking that is an article I just read about polyamorous relationships, if people involved in that were having a ceremony of blessing would I go? No way. Nor would I go to a wedding where a man or woman was marring the person they cheated with that ended their first marriage. Now maybe it's easier for me to say no to those because I don't have a real person whom I love in those situations, I don't know. But it has made me think more about why I would be ok going to a same sex ceremony and not those.

For the record, yes I have attended the wedding celebration of one of my gay friends. I'd do it again in the name of Jesus, who was routinely abused for eating, celebrating, and hanging around with sinners of every variety. I'm sure that those accusations sounded as pious as many of those that I'm reading here.

I'd be there, because Jesus would have been there, and needs to be there through me as a witness to both love and truth. People cannot accept truth without love. They cannot understand love without presence.

May we love with humility and compassion.

"battles worth fighting" you ask? Homosexuality and gay marriage are rebellion against the created order of God. He made us male and female and ordained marriage between man and woman. To give any affirmation, even by attendance to a ceremony, is to concede it is open to "honest differences of opinion". It is a sad commentary on the state of the American Church that this would even be a controversy among us. As the Anglican bishops of Africa said, we have given heed "to the doctrine of devils". No. No Christian should attend a "gay marriage". It is a ceremony that is in rebellion against the Lord. We have no reason to be there.

Arnold (et al), I respect your intentions, but not your viewpoint. How do you respond to the similarity of your position with the accusations leveled at Jesus? "A friend of tax collectors and sinners", is the common phrase in the gospels.

He ate with them, a meaningful ceremony in the near east that showed a fundamental acceptance, a statement of familial connection. Did this sharing of food and life implicate him in their lifestyles of sin? No it did not, though many well meaning, pious people felt that it did.

Or the story of the whore who wept - "If he knew what kind of woman this was, he would not even let her touch him" they said.

Their view is yours - a view of a holiness that is too small to walk through the world untainted.

I believe that the truth and love of Jesus is big enough to overcome the tainted bentness of a gay wedding and cut through to the infinitely valuable people, needs, and emotions at the heart of the issue.

I also believe in a holiness that can overcome the well meaning lies that would shrink the holiness of Christ until it is too weak to engage the world with a confident, redemptive love.

Please read the gospels humbly, and consider this viewpoint. Peace to you.

Holly, not true. I have had gay friends and have gay family members, whom I love and who I believe realize I love and care for them. Could I attend their wedding, especially if it purported to be Christian, I don't think so, but on the other hand, Paul's comments speak to me as well. I'm still on the fence in a lot of ways despite my comments one way or another. My gay friends moved out of the area and my only interaction with my gay relatives is at family reunion type events, but should I find out any of my friends, coworkers or acquaintances is gay, I would not treat them in personal interactions any differently than I do now--with love and respect. Could I attend a wedding, though? I don't know. I'm still trying to understand if that is the same or different in some way than Jesus eating with tax collectors and sinners. The bottom line for me is that showing love and support for a gay person (which I am eager to do) is still a far different thing than saying that disorder is not disorder and that sin is not, in fact, sin, and than denying that God has defined marriage from the beginning in the created order as one man and one woman (marriage being an image of Christ and His Church). To do the latter is, I believe, a sin, and one that my own bent would make me vulnerable to, which is why I wrestle with this issue.

I think Holly wants us not to just attend her wedding, she wants us to say that it is OK and we're happy about it. That we cannot do. Jesus ate with the prostitutes and tax collectors, but he probably didn't say, "Yeah, go for it." He did it to initiate, and then maintain a relationship. That is why we do what we do, to show people the love of Jesus without condoning their behavior. I would hope people would show their love toward me, in spite of the many ways that I fail. But if I were a true friend, I would not someone to put themselves in an uncomfortable and morally awkward position.

Bible is clear

1CO 10:27 If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28 But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake-- 29 the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? 30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?

Paul

I guess. I am sadden that in this day and age we have forgotten the truths of the bible. I see the arguements concerning Gay marriage range from
It can't produce kids therefore....well I know lots of folks who get married who can't have kids..so do marriage for them.
Another agruement is marriage is one man and one woman well we better tell soloman, david, abraham and the majority of the "good" people in the bible theirs is a no no.
Last arguement is God created adam and eve not adam and steve..well to that I say that let's remember that even in the bible we read that there was more then adam and eve because cain got a wife and it was not his sister.

To disambiguate, there are 2 "Paul's" posting to this thread. I did not post the above Corinthians, quote, though I think it contributes to the discussion.

-The Paul who was talking about Jesus.

To the 1 Cor 10:27 Paul: good text. Very relevant to the conversation. But I could see how both sides could use this text to argue for their side; and in fact, without any commentary on your part, I'm not actually sure WHICH side you are arguing for! So the text is clear, but how we apply that text may not be as clear as you think, at least not on this issue. And that's fine. If living the Christian life was easy, there'd be no need for Holy Spirit! There is a tension in this issue--as well as others--that we struggle with, and HOW we struggle with that tension may actually be more important than which particular side we end up on. In the end, the best any of us can do is be true to our convictions, and base those convictions on our understanding of God's word.

sylvia, good argument about solomon, david, abraham, et. al. God has worked through and for many people throughout history who have not followed the ideal marriage principles; which is why, in the end, the issue of same-sex marriage is not a hill I'm particularly willing to die on.

AND YET...we cannot ignore the fact that Solomon, David, Abraham, and others, suffered major spiritual consequences for not following God's plan for marriage. Some of those consequences are still being felt even today. A smart person learns from his own mistakes. A wise person learns also from the mistakes of others. It would be wise to learn from the mistakes made by people in the Bible. People make mistakes, and God's grace is generous. But we will save ourselves many headaches the closer we follow God's will.

And as far as Cain's wife. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates there was more than one "Adam and Eve." But Genesis 5 does tell us that Adam did have other sons and daughters. So even though the Bible does not tell us where Cain's wife came from, if you look at the text objectively you would have to say that the evidence would favor the view that Cain's wife was in fact his sister. But if you have a stronger Biblical argument for your point, I'd be interested in hearing it.

I attended the wedding of two lesbians, both close friends, and I felt the Spirit there more than most heterosexual weddings.

It was two people pledging their lifetime love in defiance of society, as opposed to two people practicing conspicuous consumerism by spending thousands of dollars on a pageant. The former was focused on God, the latter on "the bride's best day ever."