That is really interesting. Why be suspicious? Muslims are coming to faith. I don't really see the problem. I know of some Sudanese muslims in Cairo who had this happen to them. I'm all for it.

Also, I wonder what he thinks of Paul's conversion.

The mention of Paul's conversion is a good one.

Interestingly, the couple instances that I've heard of (from people I turst) the Muslim visions have involved a dream or vision directing the person to go to another particular person to tell them about Jesus.

My guess is that Piper would be more comfortable with that because it still involves someone sharing the gospel with the Muslim individual.

I have great admiration and respect for John Piper. However, he often seems quite comfortable opining (and quite dogmatically) on "indifferent" matters, to use Calvin's term. It does seem that, by his line of reasoning, Paul's conversion would be invalidated, or suspect at the least. And the point above about God's sovereignty is to the point, as well. God is not boxed in by our perceptions and interpretations. He remains sovereign, even over his most accomplished and famed preachers.

If God is as sovereign as Piper believes, then why can't He lead people to Himself in the places where His followers don't have the guts to preach the gospel? Monergists claim all the time that salvation is wholly an act of God; but now that there are some instances of it entirely being an act of God, Piper gets suspicious? Hmm.

If God chooses to bring visions to some - and through that draw them to Christ, who am I to say otherwise. What is important is that they are finding their way to Him.

The issue is why does Ahmed get a direct revelation from God, but Khalid doesn't?
Is Ahmed of better character & more deserving, or is he chosen because of his wickedness & depravity for in his weakness Jesus' power is made perfect?
Can Ahmed resist the direct call of God?
Is this direct revelation considered to be continued revelation, or existing revelation repeated?
What happens to verses like faith comes through hearing, and the great commission? The position I hold is that direct revelation to Ahmed (in a dream, vision, etc) prepares his heart to hear the wWrd.

I think it is a complete misunderstanding of Dr. Piper's comments if we conclude he does not believe in the sovereignty of God or God's ability to "work outside the box." His point is that God built the box and the box says, "how shall they hear without a preacher." - God's words, not Dr. Piper's. He is trying to be faithful to the Scriptures. He isn't making up his own rules. He is trying to follow God's rules as revealed to us.

I don't get the sense that Jesus revealed the whole gospel to Paul in his vision. He seems to have revealed himself and then told Paul to "rise and go into the city and you will be told what to do." (Acts 9:6). God then sent Ananias to meet Paul and only after that was he baptized. I think we can safely assume that it was Ananias who shared the gospel with him.

I believe Dr. Piper would agree in visions that direct the recipient to someone else in order to hear the Word, but only that he is suspect of those who claim God revealed everything they need to know about the gospel in his vision to them. He could do that if he wanted, but according to his Scriptures, that is not the way he wants to do it.

"how shall they hear without a preacher."

Is Piper exercising authority on the interpretation on what "preach" meant in the 1st Century through a lens of what it means now?

Interesting hermeneutic.

gimme a break.
this is ridiculous and irresponsible.
people are coming to faith in Jesus Christ, and at great risk to themselves.

These people live in contexts where "the preacher" is nigh unto impossible to come into contact with.

AND, despite all claims about Biblical fidelity, it seems to me that we do violence to the text we claim to love so much more than everyone else when we say the "preaching" texts in question and in their context are somehow PRESCRIPTIVE rather than particular to the occasional nature of the letter to the Romans.

Paul was not explicating the God designed "box" for all time for evangelism. Paul was articulating and assuring the particular concerns of the Roman church a gentiles vis-a-vis the status of Israel as the covenant people.

This is the problem with biblicism. It's all a pseudo-intellectual pretext to rip ideas out of their contextual flow for our own purposes and to still claim the high ground on biblical fidelity to boot.

embarrassing and sad.

Most of the stories I've heard have started with someone telling them about Jesus, THEN they dream about it as sort of a confirmation.

I've become suspicious of John Piper...big time.

In John 9:16, the Pharisees said Jesus couldn't be from God because Jesus worked on the Sabbath. The Law God had given seemed to box God in to a certain way of working, or not working.

John Piper is doing the same thing, arguing that God works in prescribed ways that we have clearly discerned from the Scriptures. He seems to believe God will not accomplish his purposes outside this previously revealed box.

For the Pharisees, it was the Sabbath; for Piper, it's human preaching.

But we need to look beneath the surface so we can judge correctly (John 7:24).

I'm a huge Piper fan, but I think he's taking an over-literal position on this: "The gospel needs to be heard." If "hearing" is essential, how can anyone be saved by reading a gospel tract or even the Bible?

I don't think this article has given us enough information to ask for judgments on Piper or those claiming to come to Christ through dreams. What exactly were these dreams and what did they tell these people to do?
Piper is a firm believer in the sovereignty of God. Let's not attack a man of God. He is being careful to keep to the Word of God, which is always a good thing. It doesn't seem Piper is saying these claims are false, but that he is suspicious, meaning he believes they need to be looked at more closely. Lets not forget many false religions have been started by dreams "from God or Jesus." Again, not saying these conversions are false or the beginnings of a false religion, but can see Piper's point of wanting to handle dreams with care and examine everything against the Word of God.
BTW, videos, tracts, and radio broadcasts still involve a human preacher.

Some are brought into the faith (Christ) by ways too sovereign for us to understand but only some that none may presume and unwisely accept ways not revealed and established in the scripture (bible).

Commenting without casting aspersions is graceful.

I agree with those mentioning that Paul is a pivotal example of this. My opinion is that God can call anyone through any means ie a dream, the validity of his conversion will be in his preaching and lifestyle afterwards. In any case, once involved with other Christians, you do hear the Gospel preached. Conversion might be immediate, but from there everyone still has some growing to do. As Paul said once: we start on milk and as we grow we get fed proper food. I'm all for God speaking in dreams, converting people, from there we walk the narrow path and grow towards maturity.

Marcella wrote, "BTW, videos, tracts, and radio broadcasts still involve a human preacher."

Visions/dreams/interactions with Jesus involve, well, Jesus. Give me Jesus over John Piper every day!

Those who are mentioning Paul are forgetting that Jesus in that encounter never preached the full Gospel story to Paul on that road. He simply tells Paul who he is and what his plan for Paul is. He then directs him to wait for the brother who will come and preach the gospel to him and bring healing to his eyes. Paul also receives teaching and spends times in scriptures after his healing.

I do find it disturbing that people would make this much of a big deal of Piper's suspicions. We are told to test out all we hear by Scripture, to study carefully. He didn't dismiss the phenomenon entirely, but he is looking at it with a skeptical eye, as we all should whenever we hear these kind of things. Faith doesn't always mean we don't take the effort to validate, verify these stories and encounters. There is already too much false teaching in this world, we have to be careful that we spread verifiable truth, not unverified accounts.

After having watched the Q & A from the Let the Nations Be Glad! http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/seminars/let-the-nations-be-glad-qa

I have to say I don't think this article is a fair rendering of Piper's position. I'm still not 100% sure that I agree with him...but his point seems to be more against praying for Muslims to have dreams, saying that it deflects from what Scripture says about how people are converted.

He doesn't seem to answer the "is it real conversion" or "is it real" question. He is answering the "demotivating question" that was asked...and he says it "deflects". He's saying let's not replace the biblical paradigm.

Does it happen? He's suspicious. Doesn't mean he is saying they are liars or that it doesn't happen. He is just saying--let's pray biblically, let's preach the gospel, and stay close to the paradigm of the book so that we are swept around by all the "waves" that run through evangelicalism.

It doesn't matter how Piper feels about it and it certainly doesn't matter what he is comfortable with.

Since when does God consult with him? Piper has no context for this because his own theology limits what the Spirit of God can and will do at the behest of the Son and Father in ways we don't always understand.

Piper has stange thinking. If he can't understand it, it must not be possible. Believe me, Piper is no Moses or Paul or Elijah. He doesn't have the cred, the guts or the experience.

He oughta put a sock in it and go back on sabbatical or whatever that was and get a new perspective. I'm bored sick with him. And yes, the role of dreams and visions in salvation is real. It happened to me.

I guess that deaf people cannot come to Christ, since they cannot "hear" the gospel?

Not coming down on one side or the other in this debate; although we are to test the spirits and be careful that we are not led astray.

However, Paul is not a good example; it was neither a dream nor a vision. There was a flash of light around him. While the men with Saul (at the time) did not see who spoke, they heard the voice. And even in this scenario, Jesus merely identified Himself to Saul and told him to go into the city (now later a vision was given to Saul about Ananias coming to see him.) Another thing: Saul knew what the believers he was persecuting believed; he was there when Stephen delivered his defense/sermon and was there when Stephen was stoned. Apples and oranges, my friends.

I believe God works in ways which sometimes we dont understand. Therefore Jesus appearing in a dream to muslims is possible.

I'm not sure what astonishes me more: The tone of those who disagree with John Piper in these comments or the disorganized thinking of those who seem to be minimizing the necessity of the proclamation of the Scriptures in evangelism.

OK...you folks should watch "more than dreams" 5 stories of MBB's who had dreams about Jesus which led to their conversion....if that council at my ordination Dec '79 would had asked me if I believe in vision and dreams, I would had a negative response. But I heard many stories since then that God STARTED speaking to folks about salvation in Jesus. mr Piper perhaps should spend some time in the Middle East/Turkey before he makes some (faulty) conclusion...www.bbcturkey.org

@Wes,

it seems your astonishment is paralleled by the astonishment of those of us who wonder why Mr. Piper persists in making pronouncements about things in such a rightly motivated, but wrong-headed way.

Just because a person is convinced of the value of Scripture doesn't mean that they rightly deploy or apply it.

In this case the Rom. ref. is wrongly used by Mr. Piper to make a case that does violence to the context of the passage in question.

I suspect because of the circumstances of their occurrence and the fruit afterward, many if not most or all of these kind of Muslim visions are genuine encounters with Christ. Piper is right to caution discernment, though. Visions and dreams can come from other places than God. From the earliest times believers of discernment have warned about this reality (for instance St. John of the Ladder in "The Ladder of Divine Ascent").

The source of spiritual delusion is not limited to dreams and visions, however, it seems to me. If I am understanding Scripture and the teaching of the Church correctly, its root source is the devil and he has many tricks in his bag. It is our pride (not dreams and visions), that is at the heart of what makes us vulnerable to his deceptions. Therefore, overly literal "tunnel vision" sorts of interpretation of Scripture can be a source of spiritual delusion as well.

I suggest that since the "heavens proclaim the glory of God" in an obviously non-verbal way, an experiential encounter with the living Christ (whether in dreams or otherwise) certainly proclaims Him in a way that would make mere verbal preaching inadequate, and yet is the ultimate foundation for the kind of faith we need to have to be saved! As I'm sure most here as well as Piper understand, the kind of faith we are called to in Christ is "pistus" in the Greek, which means "personal trust" or "trust in a person," not intellectual assent to doctrinal particulars. Now, obviously, some of those doctrinal particulars will fall into place pretty readily if we have a genuine encounter with the real Jesus Christ, but they are not the ultimate foundation for our faith in Him--rather Jesus, the Living Divine Person, the Living Word, is. In fact, if all our doctrinal particulars are perfectly in place (in the intellectual sense), yet we have not yet truly encountered Christ in our own hearts (pride making us incapable of "hearing" in this sense), then we remain in darkness.

Just a thought, but it may be because many of our Calvinist brothers and sisters are cessationist, so they probably wouldn't feel comfortable with tongues, prophecy or healing as well as dreams and visions as tools that God uses today.

Another thought but I think we have to be mindful of having conversations along the lines of "can you BELIEVE what that christian leader is saying now?" "How CRAZY is that?" etc. To our non-Christian friends it can come across like we Christians love nothing more than slating one another. I have done this many times myself, so hold my hand up here but just sayin' ;o)

In the interview with Naeem Fazal, he mentions that PRIOR to his vision of Christ that he "attended midweek gatherings on the college campus and weekend services at different churches...even attended a prayer meeting...". I would think that he heard and/or read the gospel of Jesus Christ while attending these events, so the vision was more of a confirmation of what he already heard/read. So Piper has good reason to say:

"Jesus coming to [Muslims] in their head, preaching the Gospel to them that they have never heard of before, and believing and being saved… that I am suspicious of… big time."

I have listened to interviews of Muslims that have converted to Christ having these visions of Christ, but it either after they already heard/read about Christ, or if they never heard of Him He directs them to learn more about Him by sending them to Christians.

I think this article is not well written, and also taking Piper out of context.

The author writes:

"And if a mode of conversion isn't found in the New Testament, is it automatically suspect or invalid? (Last I checked no one came to faith in the NT through a track, video, or radio broadcast.)

in order to argue for God using visions ALONE to bring a person to faith in Christ.

The only problem is that gospel tracts, gospel videos and gospel radio broadcasts still involve His people to get the gospel out. Tracts, videos, radio broadcasts are made by Christians and distributed to non-Christians by Christians. So I can see God using a tract, video, or radio broadcast in bringing a person to faith in Christ because there is Christian involvement in producing and distribution.

God exclusively proclaiming the gospel to non-Christians in a vision is not using His people.

"God exclusively proclaiming the gospel to non-Christians in a vision is not using His people."

1. Does He have to?

2. Don't the prayers of His people count also as "helping?"

@Nathan,

Perhaps you (or someone) would speak to my point: The tone in which various commentators here use when talking about John Piper - or frankly anyone who disagrees with the author's argument.

By the way, is there no room in the Evangelical tent for those of us who prioritize Scripture over subjective revelation?

Further, just because a person is convinced someone is "rightly motivated, but wrong-headed" doesn't make it so. The tone here, however, is self evident. It is what makes at least some of us long-time CT readers very sad.

All the accounts I have come across - including those reported in the "More than Dreams"-Videos (ask Google) - involve BOTH supernatural revelation in dreams et al. AND human agents. Often Jesus in a dream would tell someone to find this person or go to that church or - read the Bible. Or, as stated above, the dream would confirm the message of a human agent. That's quite in line with Paul's conversion, I think.
If Christians take a position like "No need to go there, let God do the job through dreams" - then I'm entirely with John Piper.

I do agree that the tone of some (not all!) on here towards Mr. Piper is harsher than necessary. It does go both ways, though. Some who disagree with those who disagree with Mr. Piper are pretty harsh, as well!

On the topic, some have pointed out that God did not reveal the whole gospel to Paul (then Saul) on the road to Damascus, and that he directed him to Ananias. But all Ananias did was pray for his sight to be revealed and then call him to be baptized. There is no record that Paul heard the gospel from Ananias; and in fact he himself claims specifically in Galatians 1 that he did not receive the gospel from any man, but he received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

So Mr. Piper is right in encouraging discernment, as Satan can use dreams as easily as God can. And Scriptural revelation must always take priority over general revelation. BUT...Scriptural revelation itself demonstrates that God is capable of reaching people through means that may not always make sense to us! Certainly, coming to faith through dreams, if God does in fact utilize that method, should be an extremely rare exception rather than the rule. But most muslims live in areas where such extreme measures may well be necessary.

@Wes,

I don't understand why there would be a problem with a vigorous and rigorous "tone" in response to Mr. Piper when he seemingly insists on coming out quite vigorously and rigorously in the first place about personal preferences and persuasions.

Second, the choice is NOT between Scripture and personal subjectivity. though I understand how framing it that way helps people try to keep the rhetorical high ground when doing violence to the Sacred Texts in the name of honoring them.

Maybe the rigor of pushback comes precisely because people who disagree on this point see how this is a misunderstanding of Scripture and, in agreement on principle with Mr. Piper, we know that these things cannot be left unanswered.

No one seems to want to question the initiating tone and persistent need to pontificate that gives rise to the pushback.

Mr. Piper is part of a stream of evangelicalism that consistently starts conversations by poking people in the eye and then when people justifiably say "Hey! What are you doing!?" they get painted as having "tone" problems.

Let's interrogate the legitimate critiques here and the hermeneutical method that would rip a line from Rom. 14 out of context to ham-handedly prooftext a personal suspicion and imply that somehow the witness of Scripture supports his personal opinion.

Sincerity about the value of Scripture and it's preeminence means nothing if the texts are deployed incorrectly or in a specious manner.

Regarding the tone of some of the responses: I say let it fly. Piper's tone is condescending and full of hot air. We don't criticize his tone because he has some sort of platform. But us normal people have to watch our tone. Really?

Piper can be a boor and I still insist he needs more rest. And his raising of Scripture to the point of deity is a complete turn off. He is not and Scripture are not the fourth and fifth members of the Godhead.

From above, "Certainly, coming to faith through dreams, if God does in fact utilize that method..." He does.

"...should be an extremely rare exception rather than the rule." Who said? I think I'll let God be the judge of that.

Peace out.

Yawn. "The Onion" needs to write a characteristically ironic piece called "Calvinist Pastor John Piper a Curmudgeon." Seriously, I wonder if there's anything that can make that guy happy.

Somewhat seriously, has the man ever read the Acts of the Apostles? Last I checked, the Holy Spirit was reaching people left and right in all sorts of unusual ways. Does he know that the apostle Paul whom he loves to quote was himself brought to Christ BY A VISION?!?

Just a few thoughts to add:

As to Saul's conversion, wasn't his preaching suspect as well? Turns out it was proven legit, but does lend some credence that it's OK to be wary and investigate.

Second, is it me, or is a title like "...Suspicious of *Muslim* Dreams..." baiting a bit. If they are indeed converted Muslims doesn't that mean they are Christian? So why not "...Suspicious of Christian Dreams..." I'm sure the same would hold true.

Lastly, characterizing this as either/or concerning God's involvement is a stretch to begin with: cessation or not, all conversion is empowered by God's involvement ("[Paul] planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the harvest."). The question is not a matter of cessation of God's gifts as I see it, but do we see God choosing to convert non-believers without using His Church to proclaim the Gospel as *normative.*

Given that this is a recent, and seemingly localized, movement attributed to God, using a little discernment may indeed be wisdom from God. Do we really believe that applying such discernment which God has given us is offensive to Him?

Wyatt, in case you're still tuning in...I do appreciate the pushback. It gives me a chance to think through what I wrote and offer clarifications. So here goes...

First: "'"...should be an extremely rare exception rather than the rule.' Who said? I think I'll let God be the judge of that." I do agree with you: God alone is the judge. My statement is not meant to be a judgement. You asked, "Who said?" Well, Scripture says, as I understand it. From my reading of Scripture, it seems to me that coming to faith through dreams is the exception, not the rule (if it's the phrase "extremely rare" that you object to, forget I said it; it doesn't matter to me how rare it is, my point still stands). I'm certainly open to Scriptural evidence that would make the case otherwise; but absent that, my answer to you is, "Scripture says."

Second: "'From above, "Certainly, coming to faith through dreams, if God does in fact utilize that method...' He does." Fine. You claim he does. I claim I don't know. You wrote earlier: "[Y]es, the role of dreams and visions in salvation is real. It happened to me." That is wonderful for you, but I myself have never witnessed such an experience, so I just don't know. My comment was not intended to diminish your experience or it's consistency with Scriptural revelation. As I argued in my post, the experience of Paul does open the possibility of people coming to faith apart from hearing the Word from human agents. Rather, my comment was phrased consistent with my belief that it is unwise to be too confident in things we know very little about. I meant no offense, and I apologize if my words were offensive.

A few points on your part I'd like to push back on, however...

No, Scripture is not God. But it is the primary revelation we have of who God is and how he works. I do agree that some people take that concept too far, and whether Mr. Piper is one of those people can be debated. But Scriptural revelation, interpreted correctly, must be given priority over personal experience. Our personal experience is simply too limited to reveal the largeness of God.

Mr. Piper's tone may very well be "condescending and full of hot air." But I seem to remember Jesus saying something to the effect that if we treat well only those who treat us well, what good is that? Don't even unbelievers do that much? I believe that if we are disciples of Christ, learning from him how to live in harmony with the Gospel, then replying to a person whose tone is condescending would be a wonderful opportunity to respond with a tone that communicates respect and love.

And if you're "bored sick" with Mr. Piper, then why waste your time reading an article about him, much less reading comments about an article concerning someone you're bored sick with, and even writing comments yourself? Wouldn't your time be better spent doing something else? There's plenty of articles on this blog that I skip over if I don't think they're going to be worth my time!

It's sad to see the sovereign God drawn into unhealthy boxes and held positionally hostage by christian leaders that cannot imagine an enormously creative God that is unfolding His kingdom in His way(s), His methods, His grace...

Piper seems to forget that Paul himself wrote about those who were saved not because of any preaching they heard but because they were given to receive "a law unto themselves" as they had seen and believed in God because of His glory that they saw in the Creation all around them.

I appreciate Piper's "testing with scripture." I also have been positively influenced by many of his writings and lectures. However, it appears that his allegiance to reformed theology has at times given way to a narrow system of what God can or cannot do. In the realm of theology I am conservative, but I think it's possible to theologize to the point of being neither practical or biblical.

While we must validate testimony with scripture we must also recognize that it's difficult to judge at a distance. For example, I have never heard of Christians being skeptical of miracles in countries or communities where miracles are happening. All the skepticism I've heard comes from the Western theologians who only hear of such testimonies at a distance. I'm not saying Piper hasn't examined the issue up close, but he is a Western theologian, and I don't think the Western theology we've received from the reformers is as complete or refined as we wish. Maybe we should check with our non-Western brothers and sisters.

In all the comments about Paul, I haven't seen either side acknowledge that Paul was witness to Stephen's comprehensive sermon. That's where Paul heard the gospel, not on the Damascus Road. Obviously, the DR encounter was significant in his coming to faith, but we shouldn't disregard Stephen's sermon.

Muslims aren't being told the Gospel, they are simply seeing Jesus proclaiming himself as God - which is exactly what Paul experienced.

Muslims do know the gospel, but they are taught to argue against it, in this way the gospel is 'preached' to them. Paul did not believe, instead he argued against it and then was faced with the truth - just like these Muslims.

I like what BC said - Paul didn't come to faith thru someone preaching to him. How does Piper deal with that?

Personally - I didn't come to faith thru someone sharing with me - I was searching - and I wasn't disappointed - I found Him. (I experienced the rebirth all alone early one morning in my home)

"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you," declares the LORD ... Jer 29:13-14

So what happens when a Muslim (or anyone) sincerely seeks the Lord and who He is??

Answer: They find HIM!!!!!

Sorry - I left out this verse:

"But I tell you, in this you are not right, for God is greater than man. Why do you complain to him that he answers none of man’s words? For God does speak—now one way, now another—though man may not perceive it. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men as they slumber in their beds.... (Job 33:12-15)

In Revelation 7:9 as well as in genesis and throughout the entire bible, God promises that all tribes, tongues and nations will be in heaven. God has promised, and it will come to pass. It seems strange to me that John Piper is so passionate about all nations coming to Christ yet questions some of the very means that some nations are coming to Christ. God is the one who draws all men to Himself, not man, God simply uses man to take His message to others. So why is it a stretch to think that God would reveal Himself through dreams and visions? Who are we as mere mortals to question God's working in the lives of others?
As for John Pipers use of Romans 10, I think he is taking that verse out of context. That verse is a call to evangelism, not a prescription for evangelism. It seems to me like John Piper is relying too much on John Calvin's doctrine of justification than on Jesus' doctrine of justification.
God has drawn people to Himself through visions and dreams throughout modern history, in the biblical narrative (Nebuchadnezzar, Paul, etc) and I believe He is still doing it today. We American Christians have a lot to learn from our brothers and sisters around the world, one of them being how God works in the hearts and lives of people.

I can only assume this is because he has not had personal experience with meeting a Muslim who has been converted as a result of Jesus appearing in a dream or vision. I used to wonder what to think of this phenomenon myself when I would read about it in books or online. But now I am currently living overseas among Muslim people and I know a growing number of people who converted to Christ because He personally revealed Himself to them in their dreams. These people bear the fruits of being true Christ followers, they have separated themselves from Islam and recognize the errors of that religion, they are sharing about Jesus with others, and they are willing to suffer persecution for the name of Christ. People in the West need to realize that God is working in a different way in the East...He is pouring out mercy and directly revealing Himself in places where Christians are restricted from sharing openly and/or because faith in the Bible has been so undermined from years of lies that it requires a personal revelation for these people to believe. Believers in the West need to change how we view our role in what God is doing overseas. We need to see how we can facilitate this move of God's Spirit. Believers in underground churches in the Middle East need our support and encouragement. Many of these believers are on Facebook or they are seeking out discipleship in other ways on the internet. There are many ways to support our persecuted brothers and sisters right from our own computer.

Gee. I wish Piper was at least as skeptical of the modern Emergent Church movement instead of getting all chummy with those false teachers.

Somebody please tell Mr. Piper that last I heard Jesus is still a living person. I don't think he'd disagree with that. I appreciate his heart for the Lord, but on this count he's wrong. Personal testimonies have been shared with me from the mouth of some former Muslims. They ARE being given REAL dreams from the Lord. Hallelujah! Who cares how they hear, as long as they are hearing ;) Of course, God will then lead them to people to help them. But you can't deny the fact that it's happening. It also happens in Communist countries. Mr. Piper needs to get out more...lol :D

Piper has only 2 conclusions:
1. He believes its impossible for God to visit the muslims in their dreams and change their belief
2. the muslims are not telling the truth( its very difficult to say they are lying just to endanger their lives to be tortured and excommunicated from family and society)